speaker wire on long runs

biggal76

biggal76

Well-Known Member
I've tried to do some research involving long runs (50ft) of in-wall speaker wire. Some runs will be much shorter for the home theatre but I have a couple long runs to run to other rooms for 2 channel. What I've found in researching is that the gauge of wire in a long run is the only factor that really makes a sonically detectable difference. What the articles I've found say is that 14 gauge Monster Cable produces no noticible improvement sonically over 14 gauge 15 amp house wire. I need 250+ feet of in-wall cable and need to order it ASAP as drywalling is only 2 weeks out. I'm considering 3 options all copper 14 gauge.
1)monster cable
2)Audiopipe on Ebay which I've read good reviews of but isn't CL3 certified for in wall use (does that matter for speaker cable since it's not going to be a fire hazzard regardless?)
3)standard house wiring cable for 15 amps

Opinions? House wiring is $100, Audiopipe is $50. The Monster Cable is close to $200. I can get the house wire locally where I'll have to wait for shipping on the other 2 options. I am going to make a decision tomorrow and want to hear what people out there are saying.
 
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I would use 12 aug or 14 aeg AUDISON wire only
Why Because it is simply magical stuff .They have a web sight. There stuff wont turn green in your walls it is easy to run very flexable so most high end car installers use it now.It is litz wound and directional try the silver 214 or 212 both would be a good choice.And it is very reasonably priced.
 
When you ask for opinions about what speaker wire to use, you're likely to get the whole spectrum recommended to you.
In my opinion. stay away from using The house wiring cable. I'm assuming you mean what is commonly called Romex. The solid wire is going to be a pain to work with anywhere you terminate it. Go with a stranded wire. I'm cheap, so I would buy some landscape low voltage wire from your local building supply store. I think it's 12 gauge, which is still tough to work with, but it's really flexible. If you have to have the work or wiring in the walls inspected by the local municipality, ask them what is acceptable, as far as the insulation of the wire. Though not necessarily a fire hazard, they might have something to say about the toxicity of the smoke if it does catch fire from another source. There are many schools of thought regarding sonic differences of wire. I'm in the group that believes what you read in your research.:D Pay attention to the route you run the wires. Stay away from power wiring whenever possible to minimize any interference.
 
your uber cheap wire has a poly insulater or worse viynal so it will act like a big capacitor in long runs you will cut off your high freq. range giveing you symbles that sound like a sad little tink. dont go cheap because you get one shot at this unless you feel like ripping out your walls later.or spendinf big bucks to have a electrition fish new wire for you.spend one to one and a half dollers per foot and do it right the first time.I told you who has the good stuff menny upscale homes are useing.www.conectionaudison.com/
 
As I told you biggal, Mucho opinions out there. You can google alot of your questions, and come to a comfortable solution. I'll leave you with my thoughts about the capacitance. Of course, I googled it:D

"12AWG cheap spkr cable has about 3 MΩ of loop resistance per foot. .200uH/ft of Inductance and about 20pF/ft of capacitance. Longer cable lengths impart increased ratings, sure, but you will need to get into the hundreds of feet to get any drastic audible abnormalities..."

At the 50 feet you anticipate the long runs to be, that's 1000 pico-farads,
which is easier for me to understand if I express it in micro-farads, or .001 uF. IMHO, capacitance is not a big issue. I'm sure you'll get some more opinions.
 
kcollins4 said:
As I told you biggal, Mucho opinions out there. You can google alot of your questions, and come to a comfortable solution. I'll leave you with my thoughts about the capacitance. Of course, I googled it:D

"12AWG cheap spkr cable has about 3 MΩ of loop resistance per foot. .200uH/ft of Inductance and about 20pF/ft of capacitance. Longer cable lengths impart increased ratings, sure, but you will need to get into the hundreds of feet to get any drastic audible abnormalities..."

At the 50 feet you anticipate the long runs to be, that's 1000 pico-farads,
which is easier for me to understand if I express it in micro-farads, or .001 uF. IMHO, capacitance is not a big issue. I'm sure you'll get some more opinions.
Click to expand...
That is with new wire those specs change very fast after the pores suck up moister from the air and corrosion begins to take it's toll.ever see Monster wire come out of a wall looking new after 10 years?
 
goraman said:
That is with new wire those specs change very fast after the pores suck up moister from the air and corrosion begins to take it's toll.ever see Monster wire come out of a wall looking new after 10 years?
Click to expand...

I don't own any monster wire. As stated, I use the landscape wire. It has no issues with corrosion AFAIK, and Mr. Russell apparently doesn't think so either.
 
kcollins4 said:
I don't own any monster wire. As stated, I use the landscape wire. It has no issues with corrosion AFAIK, and Mr. Russell apparently doesn't think so either.
Click to expand...

your report also failed misarably to recognise how the damping factor would be diminished by useing such a small wire out to 50 feet.
 
goraman said:
your report also failed misarably to recognise how the damping factor would be diminished by useing such a small wire out to 50 feet.
Click to expand...

Virtually any amount of series resistance levels the damping factor playing field.

No matter how high DF starts, it nearly always settles in around 80-150 even when relatively large gauge of wire is used.
 
biggal76 said:
I've tried to do some research involving long runs (50ft) of in-wall speaker wire. Some runs will be much shorter for the home theatre but I have a couple long runs to run to other rooms for 2 channel. What I've found in researching is that the gauge of wire in a long run is the only factor that really makes a sonically detectable difference. What the articles I've found say is that 14 gauge Monster Cable produces no noticible improvement sonically over 14 gauge 15 amp house wire. I need 250+ feet of in-wall cable and need to order it ASAP as drywalling is only 2 weeks out. I'm considering 3 options all copper 14 gauge.
1)monster cable
2)Audiopipe on Ebay which I've read good reviews of but isn't CL3 certified for in wall use (does that matter for speaker cable since it's not going to be a fire hazzard regardless?)
3)standard house wiring cable for 15 amps

Opinions? House wiring is $100, Audiopipe is $50. The Monster Cable is close to $200. I can get the house wire locally where I'll have to wait for shipping on the other 2 options. I am going to make a decision tomorrow and want to hear what people out there are saying.
Click to expand...

Just get some Belden 5000UE (12ga) or 5100UE (14ga) or 5200UE (16ga) and you'll be fine. These are all in-wall rated wires/cables from a very reputable manufacturer.

Fwiw, the in-wall rating is important - not so much that the speaker wire is going to cause a fire, but if a fire happens, in-wall rated cables don't spread it like a candle wick. If this is new construction it will be inspected and there is a good chance you'll have to rip out any non in-wall rated cable that's installed.

50ft isn't really all that long and in all honesty, 16ga would be OK. It's unlikely that you would hear any difference going with a thicker wire, although you might sleep better at night knowing you have thicker wires. :D
 
goraman said:
yes, but have you taken cheap wire out of a wall only to find it compleatly green and black under the clear poly insulation.
Click to expand...
I had it in my listening room for five years and it turned green, never mind within a wall! That clear poly insulation is garbage . Corrosion certainly doesn't do the sound any good... my treble slowly died over the five years I used that stuff.
I'm with Kevin: 12 gauge landscape lighting wire. Non-porous, flexible, cheap, big gauge.
Tom
 
ok,lanscape wire might be a good choice but take a look at the Audison I recomended its not pure silver its somekind of silver litz ,directionaly wound spend a few dollers and trysome at home you will hear a differance.It's a very small chalange and very reasonably priced for it's quality made in Italy.Any high end car audio shop has it. And it rejects RF very well.
 
landscape wire

The 12 gauge landscape wire would probably be a good choice. But, as it was mentioned it will not be fire rated but this probably would not be an issue with a city inspector. They may want to know that it is for audio and not electrical use.

As a side note, I have dug up some this type of wire that has been buried for outdoor lighting systems and the wire was shiny copper color once the end was cut off and this this stuff was in the ground for at least five years. Cheap too, 500 foot roll at home depot for about $135
 
Since the cable will be run in-wall, CL2 or CL3 rated cable is a must. There is no real difference in price vs. non-rated cable. Non-compliance with building codes can be a problem if you try to sell the home and it's discovered during a home inspection. Problems can also arise with Homeowners Insurance claims resulting from fire.

More information on in wall ratings here:
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/inwallrating.htm

Something like this would be perfect:
250ft - $85
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=100-763

500ft - $85
http://www.firefold.com/Products/500-Foot-14AWG-2-Wire-In-Wall-Speaker-Wire-UL__14G-IWSW-2-500.aspx

Home Depot and Lowes have in wall rated wire too
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs...langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100001123
 
I used the Monster Cable for my HT and have had no problems at all and am quite happy with my choice.
I used the M series 1.4 biwire for the fronts and the M series 1.2 for the center and rears, both are rated for in wall installation.
 
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