• Please note that there are a few updates and clarifications made in the Audiokarma Rules, mostly relating to advertising and the addition of the new "Paying it Forward" & "Giving back" forums in the AudioKarma Audio Marketplace section.

Suggestion- Arm for Thorens TD-145/ 160 Series?

garpt

garpt

"Analog is BACK!"
Hi All,
I purchased a Denon DL-103 for my Thorens TD-145. All has been great (with my arm weight mods) but now the little magneto that controls the auto-shutoff has bitten the dust. So now it's time to upgrade the tonearm. I also have some higher compliance cartridges I would like to continue to use. I'm an "audiophile on a budget" as well- maybe a few hundred $$?

Suggestions?
Thanks!
Gary
 
Register to hide this ad
garpt said:
Hi All,
I purchased a Denon DL-103 for my Thorens TD-145. All has been great (with my arm weight mods) but now the little magneto that controls the auto-shutoff has bitten the dust. So now it's time to upgrade the tonearm. I also have some higher compliance cartridges I would like to continue to use. I'm an "audiophile on a budget" as well- maybe a few hundred $$?

Suggestions?
Thanks!
Gary
Click to expand...

I thought those used a microswitch for arm shutoff. I recall cleaning several Thorens switches under the chassis to get the shutoff to work. Do you have a pic of the bad part?
 
How handy are you? I have a suspicion (mind you I haven't tried this) that the stock arm could be made to be more high compliance friendly with some mods. Basically I was thinking replace the stock aluminum arm tube and headshell with a carbon fiber tube and an ADC-type headshell that you can get anywhere. I'd think that could be done for a relatively small investment. Don't have a clue what it would sound like but it seems like a fun experiment, especially if you're considering ditching the stock arm anyway.
 
gadget73 said:
How handy are you? I have a suspicion (mind you I haven't tried this) that the stock arm could be made to be more high compliance friendly with some mods. Basically I was thinking replace the stock aluminum arm tube and headshell with a carbon fiber tube and an ADC-type headshell that you can get anywhere. I'd think that could be done for a relatively small investment. Don't have a clue what it would sound like but it seems like a fun experiment, especially if you're considering ditching the stock arm anyway.
Click to expand...

If it's the TD-145MK2 turntable, then the arm is already pretty light.

If it's the TD-145MK1 then the tonearm would be the TP16 mark 1 which is a pretty good tonearm, stock as it is.
 
garpt said:
Hi All,
I purchased a Denon DL-103 for my Thorens TD-145. All has been great (with my arm weight mods) but now the little magneto that controls the auto-shutoff has bitten the dust
Click to expand...

Re align it using the service manual that is available on vinylengine. There are no parts that could wear on this mechanism...
 
Bauhausler said:
I thought those used a microswitch for arm shutoff. I recall cleaning several Thorens switches under the chassis to get the shutoff to work. Do you have a pic of the bad part?
Click to expand...

Thanks.
It's actually a little "donut" plastic piece that fits around the tubular part that sits under the sub chassis. To be more accurate- I had to replace the stock TD16 arm with a TD16 arm from a TD-160 table. It is slightly different- a little shorter stub below the chassis. So I get it to work, but it's not reliable. It works for a week or two, then has to be "readjusted", it's just getting tired. It's a very sensitive mechanism of a magnet controlling a magnet "switch".

I want to upgrade the arm- I have no more reason to keep the stock arm.
I want to be able to use my DENON 103 plus my higher compliance carts.
Any suggestions for an Upgraded tonearm that fits the description?
Thanks.
Gary
 
garpt said:
I want to upgrade the arm- I have no more reason to keep the stock arm.
I want to be able to use my DENON 103 plus my higher compliance carts.
Any suggestions for an Upgraded tonearm that fits the description?
Thanks.
Gary
Click to expand...

You can't.

That's like wanting a car that is a formula 1 car and a trailer truck at the same time. The Denon 103 is very low compliance...

I, personally, would stick with the TP16 tonearm and use a cartridge of mid, mid/high compliance. Last time i tried the TP16 was with a Stanton 881 with a D89AL conical (mid-low compliance). Wonderful.
 
I currently have 3 headshells, one w/ my Ortofon OM20, one w/ my Grado Blue and the 3rd modified w/ additional mass for the Denon. Everybody seems to play together well. (I also took measures to control the resonance from the tonearm.) I didn't want to make the post a dissertation on the compatibility of the Denon 103- I know its not a highly recommended duo. I simply had the opportunity to get a great cartridge at a great price, so I took it and I'm satisfied, except I would like to upgrade the tonearm now that I don't have the auto stop function any longer.

I guess the actual point of the post should be this---
Could someone recommend a nice MID- COMPLIANCE arm for the Thorens TD-145/160 series?
Hopefully new or used market around $300.00?
Thanks!
 
Last edited:
The Denon DL-103 is low compliance. And your other cartridges you want are high compliance. For the Denon get the DL-301 which will coexist. SME 3009 II Improved is a great choice on your Thorens. $300 might get you a used Jelco. But the Jelcos are a bit massy. Good for the DL-103 not as happy with high compliance. You can have high mass or low mass, not both. Since you don't have an easy way to mount two tonearms. You must choose one way.
 
Last edited:
KentTeffeteller said:
The Denon DL-103 is low compliance. And your other cartridges you want are high compliance. For the Denon get the DL-301 which will coexist. SME 3009 II Improved is a great choice on your Thorens. $300 might get you a used Jelco. But the Jelcos are a bit massy. Good for the DL-103 not as happy with high compliance. You can have high mass or low mass, not both. Since you don't have an easy way to mount two tonearms. You must choose one way.
Click to expand...

thanks Kent. I understand the low mass/ high mass deal. I also realize there is no "perfect choice" for both. So, I believe your suggestions may be good ones; somethking with some mass that is not like those super heavy transcription type arms from the '50's- you know, those arms that could be used as a lethal weapon. I know it would be a great match for the Denon, but I'd be screwed if I wanted to use a mid-compliance cart. So, the SME, although I'd have to get lucky to find a nice one in my price range used, and it would have to be the "unimproved" if I remember correctly the "improved" is high compliance cartridges?
I did see a Jelco, new, I believe the SA370? for $299. Would this be considered a medium mass arm that would give me some breathing room w/ cartridges?
ThaNKS!
-gt
 
KentTeffeteller said:
Get a SA 250. The SA 370 lacks template or setup manual. The SA 370 is an OEM tonearm. And in your price range. Medium mass.
Click to expand...

GREAT info!
Thank you kindly. I'd actually save money on the 250 in that case. Now I need to find the cheapest price.:yes:

Cheers.
gary
 
garpt said:
I guess the actual point of the post should be this---
Could someone recommend a nice MID- COMPLIANCE arm for the Thorens TD-145/160 series?
Hopefully new or used market around $300.00?
Thanks!
Click to expand...

I don't understand. You have a TD-145MK1. This comes with the TP16MK1 tonearm. This tonearm is already MID mass arm, at 16 grams, and it's a pretty good, underrated tonearm. I don't see how a Jelco SA-250 could be subsantially better.

PS: I have used (and tinkered with) the TP16MK1, TP16MK2, TP11MK2 tonearms and used and dissasembled the turntables TD-125MK2, TD-145MK2, TD-166MK2 so i guess i have an idea of what i'm talking about.
 
Flavio-
The TP-16 MKI is an "OK", decent arm; I believe there are tone arms out there that don't cost an arm and a leg which are a LOT better trackers. I guess that's my issue with the TP-16- it's simply NOT a great tracker. The Jelco may or may not be that arm; that's the point of my post. I can audibly hear (independent of which of my several new/ like-new cartridges I use) some minor tracking errors especially on the first and last tracks. I assume it's tracking errors; it just sounds "different". Usually a bit brighter at the beginning, and mid-frequency "bloom" towards the end- every record, every cartridge. I've substantially modded the entire TT using the Chadwick mods. This TT has no right to sound as good as it does for the money I've invested. With my new preamp and speakers, the turntable now deserves a better arm. It's what audiophiles do- upgrade.
I have all the "stuff" to align the arm- protractors, electronic stylus gauge, I know how to set VTA, anti-skate, tracking force, etc.-and experiment to hear the differences. So that's not the problem, most I've consulted say the final piece is to upgrade the arm.

P.S.: Besides the fact that the TP-16 is an average tracker, the way Thorens decided to run the wiring under deck is an abomination IMO. Instead of a shielded cable termination on the tonearm base, they use the silly solder strip with the "naked" unshielded wires, which I believe is a main cause of these tables having a reputation for low-level hum. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Thorens vintage turntables, especially the TD-125 up through the TD-165/66. They are a ball to mod and upgrade.

-GT
 
Last edited:
garpt said:
Flavio-
The TP-16 MKI is an "OK", decent arm; I believe there are tone arms out there that don't cost an arm and a leg which are a LOT better trackers. I guess that's my issue with the TP-16- it's simply NOT a great tracker. (...)
I have all the "stuff" to align the arm- protractors, electronic stylus gauge, I know how to set VTA, anti-skate, tracking force, etc.-and experiment to hear the differences. So that's not the problem, most I've consulted say the final piece is to upgrade the arm.
Click to expand...

Hi GT,

Have you tightened the bearings on your TP-16MKI? I think that might be the problem with your tonearm. The bearings tend to loosen up with time, this is a known issue with the TP-16. Issue that can be solved just by tightening up the bearings.

It doesn't hurt to try.

I found the TP-16MK1 a good tracker, to say the least.
 
Flavio,
Actually, I was going to revisit the bearings again tonight. The TT was purchased NOS about 6 months ago, but I'm sure just time alone could have taken it's toll. Do you mean set them to the "blow test"? That is about all I've found regarding bearing adjustment on the TP-16. Would that solve some minor skipping that has started lately as well? (Always on the last third of the record, checked the play of the tone arm wires coming out of the base- another weak point of this arm)
 
Last edited:
can't say I've experienced tracking issues with my own stock TP16. Its never been touched either, or at least I've never tweaked the bearings. It doesn't seem sloppy or overly tight so I haven't had much reason to piddle with it.

I have no issues with the stock arm, but mostly I'd like the ability to source headshells easier. Someday I'll get my hands on a TP16 for small money and try modding it to take a different type of headshell, and maybe lighten it up a bit too. Its more of an experimental thing than me having any particular dislike for the stock arm. I'm not going to mess with the one on my table currently, any mods I did to one would be on another arm so if all else fails, I can simply re-mount the stock tonearm and be back to where I started.
 
garpt said:
Flavio,
Actually, I was going to revisit the bearings again tonight. The TT was purchased NOS about 6 months ago, but I'm sure just time alone could have taken it's toll. Do you mean set them to the "blow test"? That is about all I've found regarding bearing adjustment on the TP-16. Would that solve some minor skipping that has started lately as well? (Always on the last third of the record, checked the play of the tone arm wires coming out of the base- another weak point of this arm)
Click to expand...

Well if you have constant skipping then you can't assume your TP16 is on perfect shape and/or that you have correctly aligned everything!

Anyway, for bearing adjustment. The "blow test" just checks that the friction is low. What you want is to grab the tonearm wand and rock it to check if there is some play. You want to tighten the tonearm bearings to there is no play, while friction is still low enough to pass the "blow tests".

If the bearings are too loose, you can have mistracking problems. This is true for ALL tonearms that use gimbal movement.

garpt said:
I can audibly hear (independent of which of my several new/ like-new cartridges I use) some minor tracking errors especially on the first and last tracks. I assume it's tracking errors; it just sounds "different". Usually a bit brighter at the beginning, and mid-frequency "bloom" towards the end- every record, every cartridge.
Click to expand...

You shouldn't have this problem with the TP16.

So again, be sure that you have brought the TP16 back to spec before thinking of throwing it away. The TP16 was also the tonearm for the Thorens TD125MK2, which at one time (1967-1972) was the best turntable available on the world -save for radio station turntables. You can bet Thorens put some effort on its design.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom