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Suggestions on new Cartridge/Stylus

fizzgig

fizzgig

Well-Known Member
My Jico SAS for my M91ED has been damaged. So I am looking for a comparable replacement around the same price point.

Equipment:

Tonearm - Sonus Formula IV Unipivot - Effective mass: 4.05g
Pre-Amp/Amp - Sansui AU-517

Options:
Here are cartridges I have currently - Shure M55E, Shure M91ED, Denon DL-160

I can easily get Jico replacements for the Shures for around the $200-$250 mark.
The Denon has had its cantilever sheared off. Not sure if worth fixing, or the price point for fixing.

I love the way the Jico sounds on the Shure M91ED and the way the treble is clear and spacious on most recordings.

Is there a new Cartridge Stylus combo that would pair nicely on my tonearm and compare in the price point of the JICO SAS replacement stylus?

Any suggestions?
 
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I'd just get another JICO. I love mine...so much so that I bought a spare before they temporarily stopped production.
 
fizzgig said:
My Jico SAS for my M91ED has been damaged. So I am looking for a comparable replacement around the same price point.

Equipment:

Tonearm - Sonus Formula IV Unipivot - Effective mass: 4.05g
Pre-Amp/Amp - Sansui AU-517

Options:
Here are cartridges I have currently - Shure M55E, Shure M91ED, Denon DL-160

I can easily get Jico replacements for the Shures for around the $200-$250 mark.
The Denon has had its cantilever sheared off. Not sure if worth fixing, or the price point for fixing.

I love the way the Jico sounds on the Shure M91ED and the way the treble is clear and spacious on most recordings.

Is there a new Cartridge Stylus combo that would pair nicely on my tonearm and compare in the price point of the JICO SAS replacement stylus?

Any suggestions?
Click to expand...


Does the Denon play OK in the Sonus arm? I would think the arm resonate frequency would be pretty high
 
marcmorin said:
Does the Denon play OK in the Sonus arm? I would think the arm resonate frequency would be pretty high
Click to expand...

I've never tried the Denon on this arm, as its cantilever was sheared off when I purchased the turntable it was on. I've thought about seeing if it could be repaired, but have never had the need to.
 
patient_ot said:
With an arm that light I would be hesitant to deviate from what you know works.
Click to expand...

Yes, it would need to be a pretty high compliant stylus. The Jico has been working fine, but I wonder if there is better out there for the same $$$. Its prob a niche market for comparison between the options I'm sure. But doesn't hurt to check and see. :)
 
Of the three you have, the M91ED should be the best match for your tonearm (4.05g effective mass is REALLY low). I have several of the M31E/M32E/M73E variants on the M55E running NOS N31E styli and really like them for classic rock and 70s era progressiveness rock. However, I am running them on a table with a tonearm that has 12g effective mass.

An even better match for your arm would be a Shure V15 Type IV or V, but adding the cost of the cart + a JICO SAS stylus will push you over your budget range. I also have a Harman Kardon T60 with the Ito Microrace tonearm (8g effective mass) for use with my vintage high compliance carts (Grado G2+, Signet TK10ML and Shure V15 Type V). I don't have a stylus for the V15 Type V yet, but a JICO SAS is probably in my future. Some of these vintage high compliance carts are pretty amazing. The problem is finding styli for them.

You may want to ping @marcmorin and see if he can recommend a vintage Grado cart for your particular set up. Even if you can't find a vintage stylus, the current 8MZ ($150) stylus will work with the vintage Grado carts. You might be able to pick up a vintage cart with a bad, or missing, stylus for a song to combine with a new 8MZ stylus and stay within your budget range.
 
MCM_Fan said:
An even better match for your arm would be a Shure V15 Type IV or V, but adding the cost of the cart + a JICO SAS stylus will push you over your budget range. I also have a Harman Kardon T60 with the Ito Microrace tonearm (8g effective mass) for use with my vintage high compliance carts (Grado G2+, Signet TK10ML and Shure V15 Type V). I don't have a stylus for the V15 Type V yet, but a JICO SAS is probably in my future. Some of these vintage high compliance carts are pretty amazing. The problem is finding styli for them.
Click to expand...

See for years I've thought about an upgrade to the V15 but I've been pretty happy with my 91ED so I never pursued it. There is one on an auction for 120 right now. Is there a SAS for the Type4? Having a hard time narrowing it down.
 
MCM_Fan said:
Of the three you have, the M91ED should be the best match for your tonearm (4.05g effective mass is REALLY low). I have several of the M31E/M32E/M73E variants on the M55E running NOS N31E styli and really like them for classic rock and 70s era progressiveness rock. However, I am running them on a table with a tonearm that has 12g effective mass.

An even better match for your arm would be a Shure V15 Type IV or V, but adding the cost of the cart + a JICO SAS stylus will push you over your budget range. I also have a Harman Kardon T60 with the Ito Microrace tonearm (8g effective mass) for use with my vintage high compliance carts (Grado G2+, Signet TK10ML and Shure V15 Type V). I don't have a stylus for the V15 Type V yet, but a JICO SAS is probably in my future. Some of these vintage high compliance carts are pretty amazing. The problem is finding styli for them.

You may want to ping @marcmorin and see if he can recommend a vintage Grado cart for your particular set up. Even if you can't find a vintage stylus, the current 8MZ ($150) stylus will work with the vintage Grado carts. You might be able to pick up a vintage cart with a bad, or missing, stylus for a song to combine with a new 8MZ stylus and stay within your budget range.
Click to expand...


Just a note, and i say this with some hesitation due to a grado sheet i'm unfamiliar with. My F1, G1+, G2+ and Signature models 1 through 4 tracked quite well in my Mayware. Same arm as under discussion. I tracked those carts between 1.3 and 1.4gr. I bought my 1st 8MZ in 88, it would not play well in the Mayware, but did so in my Linn Basik Plus (10gr arm) I believe the current suggestion that current styli are 20cu is a bit off. A few units down.
 
marcmorin said:
Just a note, and i say this with some hesitation due to a grado sheet i'm unfamiliar with. My F1, G1+, G2+ and Signature models 1 through 4 tracked quite well in my Mayware. Same arm as under discussion. I tracked those carts between 1.3 and 1.4gr. I bought my 1st 8MZ in 88, it would not play well in the Mayware, but did so in my Linn Basik Plus (10gr arm) I believe the current suggestion that current styli are 20cu is a bit off. A few units down.
Click to expand...

Thanks for jumping in on the Grado info Marc, I really appreciate it. I am certainly not familiar with the Grado line. So to me it sounds like there were a few versions that played well with low mass arms, but something changed?
 
fizzgig said:
Thanks for jumping in on the Grado info Marc, I really appreciate it. I am certainly not familiar with the Grado line. So to me it sounds like there were a few versions that played well with low mass arms, but something changed?
Click to expand...


yeah, compliance. Just finished a table with a new 2 series Grado Green. it responds to the test album like a 15Cu cart. It would be a bit stiff in that Sonus arm.
 
There are a lot of factors for you to consider when selecting which cartridge to use & where to wisely spend your money, but probably THE most important factor is what sound you like & what you are looking for. Of the 3 cartridges you mentioned, both Shures will have a similar MM "Shure family" sound; which is, generally speaking, a full & warm sound, with a very broad & moderately deep soundstage that is a little vague in its definition. My personal Shure reference cartridge is a V15 mk. V that I run in an mid-'80s AR turntable & arm. As you probably already know, Shure cartridges are fabulous trackers & would be a real good match for that low mass arm of yours. Of the 2 Shure you own, IMHO the M91ED is the best one you own & would be well worth investing in a new SAS stylus for it. As a comparison, the Denon DL-160 cartridge you have, was a great slightly above entry level HOMC that many folks really enjoyed, but it is now sadly discontinued & had the typical MC sound, which is crisp & clear, with a very good soundstage definition that is somewhat narrower & shallower that the Shure soundstage, but with much more precise boundaries & instrument/performer placement. Soundwise, MC's all seem to very accurate, but completely lack the warmth of a good MM. They also need a substantial tonearm mass to sound their best & also need a higher tracking force than the Shure.

I can't imagine that your DL-160 would be worth rebuilding, when you can buy a new Denon HOMC DL-110 for $299 or go for a new LOMC Denon DL-103 for $229 (LPGear prices). Speaking about new cartridges, I really like the Grado sound myself, but would definitely defer to marcmorin's expertise on their tracking ability & suitability for your arm. But, LPGear shows a real nice selection of various models of new Grados that are in your price range. I also like the Audio-Technica brand of cartridges & some of their MM models will sound & track just as well as their Shure competitors. Finally, while the the Shure M97xE has been discontinued, there still seems to be some NOS out there on the market, so you might want to pop for one of those before they go away completely.

Lots to consider, but with your budget, I would tend to try a new cartridge. Hope this helps!
 
marcmorin said:
....tracked quite well in my Mayware. Same arm as under discussion.
Click to expand...

Actually, they're quite different, despite the name.

The JH Formula 4, designed by Australian John Harband, was the original Formula 4, and appeared first (early-70's). It was so-named because of its 4g effective mass, then the lowest of any tonearm. The Mayware appeared later, with elements from various JH, Decca and Grace tonearms in its design.

The Mayware Formula 4 is shorter (effective length 224mm versus 240) and heavier (minimum mass at lowest tracking force 4.5g). After Sonus bought the Formula 4 design from Harband (early-80’s), they arranged with Mayware to stop using the Formula 4 name, and the Mayware tonearm then became the Mark III. Sonus also slightly re-designed the JH Formula 4 with a bent tonearm tube, which because it put the uni-pivot at record height, apparently enabled it to play warped records better. JH Reproducers had long distributed Peter Pritchard-designed cartridges (both ADC and later Sonus ) in Australia, and when Harband decided to get back into music (he was a jazz pianist), he sold the Formula 4 design to Sonus - it was a perfect match for their cartridges.

So the Sonus and JH Formula 4 tonearms are almost identical, and the Mayware is rather different.
 
ETI_5000 said:
Actually, they're quite different, despite the name.

The JH Formula 4, designed by Australian John Harband, was the original Formula 4, and appeared first (early-70's). It was so-named because of its 4g effective mass, then the lowest of any tonearm. The Mayware appeared later, with elements from various JH, Decca and Grace tonearms in its design.

The Mayware Formula 4 is shorter (effective length 224mm versus 240) and heavier (minimum mass at lowest tracking force 4.5g). After Sonus bought the Formula 4 design from Harband (early-80’s), they arranged with Mayware to stop using the Formula 4 name, and the Mayware tonearm then became the Mark III. Sonus also slightly re-designed the JH Formula 4 with a bent tonearm tube, which because it put the uni-pivot at record height, apparently enabled it to play warped records better. JH Reproducers had long distributed Peter Pritchard-designed cartridges (both ADC and later Sonus ) in Australia, and when Harband decided to get back into music (he was a jazz pianist), he sold the Formula 4 design to Sonus - it was a perfect match for their cartridges.

So the Sonus and JH Formula 4 tonearms are almost identical, and the Mayware is rather different.
Click to expand...


Interesting, I bought mine in the mid-late 70's, and had a 229mm effective length. I had a Sonus Blue mounted on it, a Micro Acoustics, and then Grados
 
marcmorin said:
Interesting, I bought mine in the mid-late 70's, and had a 229mm effective length. I had a Sonus Blue mounted on it, a Micro Acoustics, and then Grados
Click to expand...

There were several versions, and the later Maywares did have 229mm effective length, although I’m not aware of which version was the first longer model. However, the Mayware Mk1 was 224mm. The MkIII had changed to 229mm, but the only info I’ve seen on the MkII (an ad) didn’t mention its effective length, so I’m not sure if that was 224mm or 229mm. There was a MkIV, and a Formula V, so as not to conflict with Sonus, and both of those were 229mm, and had larger diameter arm tubes, to be more rigid and so work better with low compliance MC's.

Previously Linn had distributed JH tonearms in Britain, which resulted in some rather undiplomatic warfare with Mayware, during which the JH brochure was modified from the original Australian version (Mayware wasn't sold here) to warn against buying copies (look only for the initials JH!), and Mayware was banned from advertising in some hi-fi magazines, due to pressure from a certain larger competitor!

The JH was introduced in 1974, so was undoubtedly the first to use the name, with Mayware introducing the Mk1 in 1977, and the MkIII in early-79.

They all work quite well with Grado cartridges, because their damping suits the relatively undamped Grado cantilevers.
 
fizzgig said:
See for years I've thought about an upgrade to the V15 but I've been pretty happy with my 91ED so I never pursued it. There is one on an auction for 120 right now. Is there a SAS for the Type4? Having a hard time narrowing it down.
Click to expand...
I have the v15 type iv with a jico sas/b. At first it was very forward but smooth from the getgo. 10 hours after, sounds pretty relaxed and detailed on my micro seiki dd-8 with the ma505 tonearm. It moved from being #2 to #1 cart for me in a span of 2 weeks. The micro vf3200e nude elliptical was my favorite cart for years.
 
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