Super Heresy version 3.0!

David D

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A couple of months ago I found a really nice pair of Heresy 1's in oiled walnut with cane grills. It had been quite a few years since I had listened to Heresies, but I had a good recollection of how much I liked them, so I purchased them and had them shipped to me.

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I connected them up to my system (McIntosh MX110z preamp & MC225 amp) and listened to them and was happy with the exception of the mid/tweet being a bit hot relative to the wooder (common complaint, I know).

I then started reading posts about the Super Heresy and learned about Dave's SMAHL tweeters, upgraded woofers, ports, etc. I was intrigued about the tweeters and purchased a pair from @Daveintn . Opened the cabinets and installed them the day they arrived and started listening. Much smoother and more transparent sounding top end! :)

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I ordered new Dayton 1% caps as per Daveintn's recommendation. They were backordered for a couple of weeks. When they eventually arrived, I soldered them in, covered the joints with heat shrink, and used tie mounts to hold them in place. The new caps smoothed out the upper end a bit more.

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At this point I was even happier with my "new" Heresies, but the mid/tweet level was still bothering me. Some more reading and I started contemplating adjusting the levels on the crossovers, but I happened to be on a thread where @ClaudeJ1 was discussing the Super Heresy and woofer upgrades. He recommended the Eminence Deltalite II 2512 since it is more efficient than the stock K22 woofer and would even out the woofer/mid/tweet level differences.

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I also added 2-1/2 pounds of Acousti-Stuf while I was at it to tweak things a bit more.

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Put the backs on and hooked them up and started listening. MUCH better balance between the drivers and I can crank them up with a variety of music and enjoy a more musical sounding system. After I completed the first speaker, I A/B'd them for my wife and she thought the new woofers blended much better as well. She said "The speaker with the new woofer sounds "live" and the speaker with the stock woofer sounds like Memorex". God, I love her! :hug:

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I really like your wife's comment. Funny and true!

Glad you are happy. Also glad they work as my software predicted. Now let me see what you think after break in and you have a chance at listening to them in Stereo with your test music. Reviews welcome.
 
I am VERY happy! I confirmed what I thought I was hearing by doing a quick and dirty check with an RTA, and the frequency response is surprisingly smooth, both near-field and seating position.

Break-in won't take too long as I'll be doing a lot of listening. As it happens, my system is located in my Den/Home Office and I have music playing all day while I'm working.

I'll post updates as they happen. :music:
 
I am VERY happy! I confirmed what I thought I was hearing by doing a quick and dirty check with an RTA, and the frequency response is surprisingly smooth, both near-field and seating position.

Break-in won't take too long as I'll be doing a lot of listening. As it happens, my system is located in my Den/Home Office and I have music playing all day while I'm working.

I'll post updates as they happen. :music:
It should a much upgraded MidBass and Midrange definition, better imaging and more micro detail
 
Great information
I am working on the same project but with H3 speakers. The SMAHL installation was easy and made a huge improvement. Waiting now for the Deltalite 2512 series II to get back in stock for next steps. These will replace the K-28-E woofers. I too am happy about this variation as I don’t need to cut a port in the cabinets.
 
Great information
I am working on the same project but with H3 speakers. The SMAHL installation was easy and made a huge improvement. Waiting now for the Deltalite 2512 series II to get back in stock for next steps. These will replace the K-28-E woofers. I too am happy about this variation as I don’t need to cut a port in the cabinets.
Even though I broke my traditional rule by not modding and testing one myself, I'm glad that my computer simulations for better woofer selection are working out for all y'all.
 
Watching with interest. I have a pair of H3's inbound that I'm going to be fooling with, curious if the SuperHeresy mods are as big of an improvement on H3 as they are on the H1/2. Also curious if they're fully compatible; do the H3 crossovers need any modifications? Are the cabinet volumes the same? I also noticed that the posters above didn't port the boxes.
 
Watching with interest. I have a pair of H3's inbound that I'm going to be fooling with, curious if the SuperHeresy mods are as big of an improvement on H3 as they are on the H1/2. Also curious if they're fully compatible; do the H3 crossovers need any modifications? Are the cabinet volumes the same? I also noticed that the posters above didn't port the boxes.
I came up with the Super Heresy 3.0 for people who had Heresy 1's before 1982, and wanted more bass without porting (don't know about H3's). So I found the Deltalite II 2512 driver to improve the output below 700 Hz. with the same low end cutoff as the K22 and it's later variants.

It's the easiest Mod ever....................with Dave's sMAHL tweeter, of course. It's just recap and swap. No hole saw, silicone sealant, plastic port or soldering iron required.

So for those who don't want a port, this is a good solution and a huge improvement still.

Besides, either one needs a sub to get all the way down there. Hoffman's Law states that you can't do much more than what I have done with those Small Boxes! Especially if you leave them sealed.
 
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Thanks Claude- very helpful. Just so I’m clear, what caps are being changed? Are the values changing or just the composition? The H3’s have different crossovers and already have poly caps I believe.
 
Thanks Claude- very helpful. Just so I’m clear, what caps are being changed? Are the values changing or just the composition? The H3’s have different crossovers and already have poly caps I believe.
Well then you're all set. Just a driver swap and some poly fill.
 
After living with my Super Heresy 3.0's for awhile, I can wholeheartedly recommend the upgrade. The combination of @Daveintn SMAHL tweeters, the Dayton 1% caps, the poly fill, and Claude's recommendation of the Eminence Deltalite II 2512 woofers has proved to be a VERY satisfying combination.

The balance between the drivers is significantly improved, with any semblance of "shoutiness" gone. Dave's tweeter setup is smoother and has more extension than the stock K-77 tweeter. Claude's woofer recommendation is spot-on and in my opinion is a much better fit to the Heresy. The increased efficiency of the Eminence woofer makes for a much smoother transition to the squawker and tweeter.

I'm very happy with the setup!
 
I'm very happy with the setup!
What was your total cost to do this?

Also thank you for trusting my advice, even though I took a chance on gjving it without measurements to back it up, I did do computer simulation. You, effectively, became my volunteer Research and Development with your ears, time, and your Money!

For over 8 years, I told people to port their Heresys to make them Super with Dave's Tweeters and various Eminence woofer upgrades. You are the first of my most recent "victims" (what Paul Klipsch called me when I met him) to do this without a port. Basically I created the term Super Heresy 3.0 based on your requirements of no porting. Now I'm working on a ported 4.0

Like I did about 8 years ago, you are now responsible for sharing the Joy by adding to the positive outcomes shared by many others. Enjoy the journey. Oh, and please thank your Wife for me as well, for her positive influence in the process! (women do have better hearing after all).
 
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Working with H3 is a bit different as the cabinet back is not screwed on. The drivers are all mounted from the front and recessed.The SMAHLs are an exact fit. I have the Kappalite 3012 HO on hand ready to cut holes for ports when I ran into this information. The Kappalites will not fit out of the box. After looking at Eminece it looks like the Deltalite has the same dimensions,I could be wrong. So opening for the woofer will need a bit of attention.
 
Working with H3 is a bit different as the cabinet back is not screwed on. The drivers are all mounted from the front and recessed.The SMAHLs are an exact fit. I have the Kappalite 3012 HO on hand ready to cut holes for ports when I ran into this information. The Kappalites will not fit out of the box. After looking at Eminece it looks like the Deltalite has the same dimensions,I could be wrong. So opening for the woofer will need a bit of attention.
Since the H3 was done after Paul Klipsch passed away, the changes were made for production efficiency. I did/do not have any interest in pursuing mods for this and learning specific details of any consequence about them. So, I'm not able to help much since you are not modding Heresy 1's, which ALL of my mods were designed for. But I'm sure you will be able to figure this out on your own just fine in the quest for better sound at home.
 
What was your total cost to do this?

Also thank you for trusting my advice, even though I took a chance on gjving it without measurements to back it up, I did do computer simulation. You, effectively, became my volunteer Research and Development with your ears, time, and your Money!

For over 8 years, I told people to port their Heresys to make them Super with Dave's Tweeters and various Eminence woofer upgrades. You are the first of my most recent "victims" (what Paul Klipsch called me when I met him) to do this without a port. Basically I created the term Super Heresy 3.0 based on your requirements of no porting. Now I'm working on a ported 4.0

Like I did about 8 years ago, you are now responsible for sharing the Joy by adding to the positive outcomes shared by many others. Enjoy the journey. Oh, and please thank your Wife for me as well, for her positive influence in the process! (women do have better hearing after all).

The cost breakdown is as follows:

  • Eminence Deltalite II 2512 woofers - $380/pair
  • Dave's SMAHL tweeters - $318/pair
  • Dayton 1% 2 uF caps - $12 for a quantity of 4
  • Acousta-Stuf Polyfill - $55 fora 5 pound bag (I actually ended up using the recommended 1/2 pound per cu ft for a total of 1 pound per each Heresy).
It may seem like a lot of cash for "upgrades" to some people, BUT I will say that when you look at the over all cost of the speakers plus the upgrades, it's certainly not unreasonable when you consider the outcome and how much it costs to buy other speakers of equivalent performance.

You are definitely correct about women having better hearing than men! While many women do not fancy audio as a hobby, they can definitely hear the differences in equipment better than most men. I value my wife's opinion in everything, including audio.
 
Working with H3 is a bit different as the cabinet back is not screwed on. The drivers are all mounted from the front and recessed.The SMAHLs are an exact fit. I have the Kappalite 3012 HO on hand ready to cut holes for ports when I ran into this information. The Kappalites will not fit out of the box. After looking at Eminece it looks like the Deltalite has the same dimensions,I could be wrong. So opening for the woofer will need a bit of attention.
Would you mond describing how the woofers didn’t fit out of the box? Different diameter for the recessed cut? Different screw locations?
 
On my H1’s, the Eminence 2512 cast frame is ever so slightly larger in diameter and would not fit between the blocking that supports the motor board. I had to use a rotary tool (Dremel) to carve a little out of the blocking to allow room for the new woofers.
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claude -- what is different enough about the heresy 1.5 that you say only pre-1982? is it the woofer change and the cap across the woofer?
Yes, you have described and E-2 network, which also uses a 4 mH choke on the woofer.

When I stood in the hallway, next to a Khorn, August 1985, after PWK showed me a rare Bell Labs 1926 publication about stereo (yes, it was all done way before 1964, when you could still get Mono LPs) I was looking at the crossover which was NOT anything close to the AA network in mine (8 years later). Jim Hunter, co-designer of the Anechoic chamber with the revolving door, designer of the non-EV Heresy Tweeter, etc. told me he had to redesign the Khorn network to accommodate the EV version of the K55(M).

I quote PWK: "Atlas is out of the driver business, as far as we are concerned," I assume they were pissed off that the Atlas came up with a better version of the K-55 driver with Dual Phase Plugs, and jacked up the price by an "unreasonable" amount of money by all indications for production purposes. Remember that Heresys saved the company by having oaver 50% of gross dollar sales. After all, who could afford Khorns (I got a my first bank loan to buy mine in 1977).

The EV driver, with it's ceramic magnet (industry had converted to those from AlNico long before) had a stronger output than the Atlas driver, necessitating network changes. Eventually, Klipsch made all their own drivers for the Heresy, except the woofers which they got exclusively from Eminence. I helped a local guy convert his Heresy "1.5" with the Klipsch made mid driver and E-2 network, but it's the only one that I actually measured. He was happy and we both went our separate paths.

I just recently bought 2 pairs of Heresy's that have, respectively, Atlas and EV mid drivers on the K-700 Horns, both with the same E networks. I intend to measure them to see what EXACTLY is happening, rather than rely on history, part numbers, or other "opinions" concerning what the differences are. To complicate matters further, I'm also working on converting them to Super Heresys using different woofers. When I am done, I will have real DATA on ALL Super Heresy derivatives, with Dave TN's sMAHLs being the only common component.

Even though I have 8 other speakers projects going on (mostly horn subwoofers) it looks like I will have to do 4 more versions of the Super H's to allow for the variations possible for the Modder who have fallen victim to my redesigns.

In order to maintain my personal and technical Integrity, all y'all will have to wait a while until I'm done with the R&D efforts for my own use before I release the data. Versions 1.0, 1.5, 2.0, and 3.0 are already out there with very Positive Listener Feedback, with version 1.0 being the one with the most data (yes, I'm using a pair in my full Atmos rear channels, 13 total if you include 2 for the subs). I also have a Super Heresy 4.0 in the works, to complicate matters further.

Your patience will be rewarded, but since I don't do this for profit, you will have to wait until I'm ready, which will be "a while or two."
 
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