quiet
Addicted Member
Ok, now I do feel for you. I would be past fuming.
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The amazing durability of 60's & 70's solid state amps
- Thread starter bob412
- Start date
BilboBaggins
Addicted Member
I am surprised to read that prices are skyrocketing in your areas. Around here, they are the same or less. There are lots of untouched gear being flipped for quick sales, and then there is the serviced stuff that sits on the shelf waiting. It wasn’t like this before. So come on up here to Canada and buy all the gear you want!
And the survivors are being parted out at an alarming rate.
OMGCat!
Super Member
I hate parting gear and typically spend way too much time trying to resurrect stuff that should very well get broken down but I've never been a very good business person. For what good face plates, knobs, cabinets, boards and the like go for on eBay it's almost better for a flipper to part than to sell a complete unit and hope it gets there in one piece and doesn't blow up after a week in it's new home.
Everything will break down eventually. Old, new, complicated, simple, something will go wrong at some point. The difference lies in what happens when something does go wrong. As a collector of antique radios, I'm well aware of the fact that components used in the old days were far inferior to what we have now. Wax/paper capacitors, carbon composition resistors, electrolytic capacitors (both wet and dry), etc. etc. etc. Manufacturers knew that stuff was going to break, so they (usually) designed it to be (relatively) easy to repair. Tolerances were wide, to allow for the inevitable drifting of component values.
As time went on, component quality increased (wax/paper gave way to molded paper gave way to film dielectrics, to name one example), manufacturing methods changed (point-to-pont gave way to printed circuit boards, wave soldering machines replaced hand soldering, etc.), and reliability increased. If things had stopped there, perhaps things would be hunky-dory.
Eventually, though, the march towards miniaturization began as through-hole gave way to surface mount even in places where it wasn't truly warranted, rather than sticking to using it in portable devices like Walkmans and cellular telephones. Compounding the problem was the advent of ROHS, which made manufacturers switch to unleaded solder. Take tiny SMD ICs with numerous pins spaced closely together, add numerous dendrites (aka 'tin whiskers') sprouting from lead-free solder, and you're asking for disaster.
In addition, as other components took great leaps forward, electrolytic capacitors changed relatively little. Early surface-mount electrolytic capacitors were far less reliable than their through-hole counterparts, leading to failures in relatively new computers whereas older examples using through-hole parts continue to chug along. In the early-mid 2000s, the capacitor plague struck, as a botched case of industrial espionage led to countless premature component failures throughout the electronics industry, particularly with computer motherboards. I'm convinced that there are still factories located in certain parts of the world, cranking out said plague capacitors for the less-than-reputable companies to use in cheap electronic devices (*cough*flatscreens*cough*) to facilitate planned obsolescence.....
Anyway, apologies for my rambling rant.
The point I'm trying to make is, components may have been lousy in older electronics compared to some of the modern parts, but they were also built to facilitate repairing, meaning that they can be fitted with modern parts in order to give them a level of reliability never dreamed of by the original manufacturers (and many of the modern ones, too). Miniaturization may facilitate today's tiny electronics like smartphones, but since small electronic devices don't last as long as larger ones (look at any laptop computer compared to an equivalent desktop PC), long-term durability is not in the cards. Early iPods and iPhones have already started going for stupid amounts of money. I have an original 5GB iPod from 2001 which somehow still works; if it lasts another 17 years, I will be absolutely flabbergasted. 
-Adam
As time went on, component quality increased (wax/paper gave way to molded paper gave way to film dielectrics, to name one example), manufacturing methods changed (point-to-pont gave way to printed circuit boards, wave soldering machines replaced hand soldering, etc.), and reliability increased. If things had stopped there, perhaps things would be hunky-dory.
Eventually, though, the march towards miniaturization began as through-hole gave way to surface mount even in places where it wasn't truly warranted, rather than sticking to using it in portable devices like Walkmans and cellular telephones. Compounding the problem was the advent of ROHS, which made manufacturers switch to unleaded solder. Take tiny SMD ICs with numerous pins spaced closely together, add numerous dendrites (aka 'tin whiskers') sprouting from lead-free solder, and you're asking for disaster.
In addition, as other components took great leaps forward, electrolytic capacitors changed relatively little. Early surface-mount electrolytic capacitors were far less reliable than their through-hole counterparts, leading to failures in relatively new computers whereas older examples using through-hole parts continue to chug along. In the early-mid 2000s, the capacitor plague struck, as a botched case of industrial espionage led to countless premature component failures throughout the electronics industry, particularly with computer motherboards. I'm convinced that there are still factories located in certain parts of the world, cranking out said plague capacitors for the less-than-reputable companies to use in cheap electronic devices (*cough*flatscreens*cough*) to facilitate planned obsolescence.....
Anyway, apologies for my rambling rant.
The point I'm trying to make is, components may have been lousy in older electronics compared to some of the modern parts, but they were also built to facilitate repairing, meaning that they can be fitted with modern parts in order to give them a level of reliability never dreamed of by the original manufacturers (and many of the modern ones, too). Miniaturization may facilitate today's tiny electronics like smartphones, but since small electronic devices don't last as long as larger ones (look at any laptop computer compared to an equivalent desktop PC), long-term durability is not in the cards. Early iPods and iPhones have already started going for stupid amounts of money. I have an original 5GB iPod from 2001 which somehow still works; if it lasts another 17 years, I will be absolutely flabbergasted. -Adam
just dave
vintage rules!
The point at hand is everytime someone starts a thread extolling the virtues of vintage gear some wieners gotta come along and put it down.
KentTeffeteller
Gimpus Stereophilus!
When that time comes, please post the EOL (End Of the Line) video on YouTube.
whoaru99
Epic Member
My apology if a probing question into the reality of the situation offended anyone's sensibities.
whoaru99
Epic Member
Indeed. Perhaps it's time to get past the thread title, paste in the original post, and see it is clearly about opinions on durability of new vs old.
Wow, I used to have a collection 'o stuff.
Then the boss imposed the one in-one out rule to mitigate the burgeoning pile.
So now I still go through a fair amount of gear, although less than fifteen years ago, but what is not deemed to be Gollum's precious after restoration is sent packing and into the hands of someone else courtesy of the auction site.
I came to realize some time ago that finding it for a great price was fun, making it work like new was fun, but if I wasn't going to actually use it it was better passed onto someone else.
quiet
Addicted Member
-----------------IT-----------------------ALL------------------------GETS---------------USED---------------------.
Yamaha V-FETs are the exception rather than the rule. I see Pioneer SX-(x)x50 and the like parted all the time, and there are virtually no unobtainium parts contained within. Same story for just about all vintage gear, Japanese or Western, prior to 1980. With a few notable exceptions, of course.
just dave
vintage rules!
Oh It's you.I was wonderin when you'd show up.Just can't resist these threads can ya? Oh by the way those rose colored glasses are for your eyes.I don't listen to music with my eyes.
I could care less about the topic, I was helping your vision and a song for encouragement to help your day.
just dave
vintage rules!
Supposed to be quite excellent.
just dave
vintage rules!
I've never heard anyone "make fun of"newer gear.Some might criticize it but make fun of?
grillebilly
Empty Head
I just got finished cleaning the controls on a 40 year old receiver and was listening to it with an old Thorens tt and Polk Monitor 7's, thinking there is no way in the world it should sound this good. It doesn't matter much what anyone else thinks but I believe the average piece of gear from the 70's is a whole lot better than the average piece of gear from the 90's on up. I have 4 vintage receivers doing duty in the house and garage and none have had more than a cleaning. All the turntables have had cables and have needed tweaks, though.
I can surely appreciate newer gear, but I've learned to respect the durability and sound quality of older equipment. Especially what was mass produced, and available at strip malls throughout most cities. Granted, it was expensive compared to today. A mid level receiver was a month's pay for an 18 year old. A current offering can be had for half of what they cost 40 years ago.
I can surely appreciate newer gear, but I've learned to respect the durability and sound quality of older equipment. Especially what was mass produced, and available at strip malls throughout most cities. Granted, it was expensive compared to today. A mid level receiver was a month's pay for an 18 year old. A current offering can be had for half of what they cost 40 years ago.