Thinking about a drop-in power amp board for KA-8300 and KA-9100 amps

leesonic

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I am thinking about designing and producing a drop in power amp board for the Kenwood KA-8300 and 9100 amplifiers that use the TA-100W darlington pack, instead using discrete output transistors. When I say designing and producing, I am fortunate in my new job to be working with a bunch of talented individuals, one of whom said he would do the PCB design. As for the circuit, I would be borrowing the circuit from one of their other amps, like the KA-7100 or 8100.

The idea is to make a board exactly the same size (if possible) as the boards in these amps, with the connections for power, input, output etc. in the same physical locations. The output transistors would be two plastic power devices that could bolt to the heatsink using the existing screw holes left behind by the TA-100 modules. The board would be shipped fully populated, with the bias and offset already adjusted.

There are certain questions that arise in producing such a board :

1) The 7100 and 8100 power amps run on 47V and 50V respectively. The 8300 and 9100 power amps run on 51V and 57V respectively. What would be the implications of running, say, the 7100 circuit on the power supply of the 9100 which is 10V higher?

2) Both the 7100 and 8100 circuits use pretty straightforward components that are easy to find modern substitutes for. The output transistors for example would be MJL21193/94, the TO-264 versions of the MJ21113/94. What might be difficult to source would be the dual FET uPA63H that is used at the input. Also, the 5TP-41L thermistor TH1 and TH2 that sit on the same heatsink as the outputs.

3) Would the "Kenwood sound" of the 8300 and 9100 be compromised by using the circuitry of the 7100 or 8100? I have had several 7100s, and was always pleased with their sound. This amp also received rave reviews in the HiFi press back in the day.

My biggest problem would be finding a suitable KA-8300 and/or KA-9100 to try this project on. Both these amps seem to sell for around $200 upwards for parts units, which I am reluctant to spend on what would be a test bed for this new power amp board.

I have attached screen grabs of the schematics of the four amps mentioned.

Lee.

Ka-7100.jpg

Ka-8100.jpg

Ka-8300.jpg

Ka-9100.jpg
 
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I considered adapting a KR-7600 power amp board to a KA-9100 for a short while, which uses +/- 52V. It would solve your dual FET issue, but might be hard to cram it all on a 9100 sized board. The thermistor issue would remain. The offset is set by the differential pair Qe1,2.

If you blindfolded me I couldn't tell you if I was listening to a 7100, 8100 or 9100, although I much prefer the 9100 - it's just a cooler amp.



upload_2018-7-23_19-22-3.png
 
I considered adapting a KR-7600 power amp board to a KA-9100 for a short while, which uses +/- 52V. It would solve your dual FET issue, but might be hard to cram it all on a 9100 sized board. The thermistor issue would remain. The offset is set by the differential pair Qe1,2.

That looks to be an interesting alternative. 12 transistors versus 16 on the KA-7100 might be easier to fabricate. I'd like to stay away from surface mount components, and possibly two layer boards as well. But it all comes back to finding a suitable test mule.

Lee.
 
I think someone on DIYAudio actually made a replacement board or rather a replacement circuit for the TA-200W for the KR-9600 using a newer darlington pair. I've yet to try it, but it's on my _maybe_ list of things to do.

For what its worth it's probably completely possible to do so, you'd just need to adjust the board and mount it in a way where the transistors can dissipate heat onto the heatsink. With the rest of the circuit it isn't too difficult to recreate. The problem is that you can't make a universally adaptable driver board because different supply voltages will affect the amplifier. Too low and you get bad distortion (think supply caps that have leakage and can't filter enough clean voltage). Too high and you'll end up blowing up your output transistors. Incidentally you could use the 7100/8100 driver board on another power supply assuming you clamp the voltage enough where there's a mild variance of maybe 1-2V. So there's that at least.
 
FWIW - The 8300 and 9100 use different TA modules with different part numbers per the service manuals. The 8300 uses the TA-100W and the 9100 uses the TA-100WA. Don't know if there is really a difference
 
FWIW - The 8300 and 9100 use different TA modules with different part numbers per the service manuals. The 8300 uses the TA-100W and the 9100 uses the TA-100WA. Don't know if there is really a difference

Al ... no difference
Used either one in a 9100 or an 8300 ... no problem. Also found a TA100W / TA100WA in both models

John
 
I've got a link somewhere that a guy recreated 9100 power packs with discrete components. It seemed like that was less involved.
 
Thanks everyone. The sicman solution looks simple enough with readily available components. How would this effect the wattage? Also can anyone provide a guide for dummies of the measurements and adjustments needed to install this properly (bias etc)? I have a meter and soldering iron but am a novice at the technical side of things.

I am planning to purchase a 9100 but with the modules unavailable I want to make sure I have backup options should I need them.

Thanks!
 
Never did, as no suitably priced donor 8300/9100 units came along. OK, so I know I'm not going to get one for $10, but some of the prices being asked for non-working units borders on the ridiculous.

Lee.
 
I got screwed on a couple of "AS IS" buys on ebay, paid way too much for buggered up units.
People think they are techs and dive in with no knowledge, and when it blows. They sell it with
all sorts of problems.
John
 
I'd be interested in buying something to replace the TA-100W in my KA-8300. I miss listening to that amp.
 
I just installed one of these in my KA-8300. So far it is working great. Just wish I could find a meter now.
 
I just installed one of these in my KA-8300. So far it is working great. Just wish I could find a meter now.

Stupid question of the day...The KA-8300 uses two modules, right?
Are you running one original and one repop?
 
Yes. Takes 2. I considered replacing both just to keep everything balanced, kinda worried about that. I can't tell any difference from left to right. I will probably just leave it that way, unless the price comes down on the modules. Kinda high$$. But the unit sounds fine.
 
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