Thorens help?

D

dasboot

Member
I took mu TT out of the cabinet so now I can see what I've got.
The cart is a "Grace".
Any good???
Forgive my lack of proper terminology....just bear with me.
I removed the BIG platter.
I'm looking at the belt assembly.
The belt is very low on the lower platter...maybe at the bottom 1/4 in.
Is that proper belt placement?
there is a chrome are next to the belt "spindle" that the belt travels through.
This arm can be raised.
What is that and wha t does it do?
The previous owner covered the plinth with 1/8 in rubber matting to dampen vibration.
Should I remove it?
It came with the disc connect vacuum system.
The little black tip cracked.
Where can I get another.
Lastly, is regular old A1 iol to heavy ?

Thanks.
Oh yeah....I have all Denon components in the rest of the system.
DCD 615/ DRW 545 and a DRA 375RD.
I only got them because I like the setup a buddy had.
I think they are great!
But what do I know!
Any comments on Deneon?

Thanks guys!
 
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more information please.

Which Thorens model (it should say so on the top portion of the plinth)? Also which Grace.?I had a Grace 9E and it was excellent.

A photo or two would help.

The chrome lever is most likely for changing the location of the belt on a pulley to change speed. Leave the rubber matting on until at least you can identify the table.

Light weight 3-in-1(brand) oil is often used as is Mobil1 5W30 synthetic.
 
What model of Thorens do you have?

Q. "there is a chrome are next to the belt "spindle" that the belt travels through.
This arm can be raised.
What is that and wha t does it do?"

A. That is what changes the position of the belt on the motor spindle to either
33 1/3 or 45 speed. Normally changed by a switch on the top of TT.

Q. "The previous owner covered the plinth with 1/8 in rubber matting to dampen vibration.
Should I remove it?"

A. Is it on the inside or outside of the plinth? If on the inside, probably not.

Q. "It came with the disc connect vacuum system.
The little black tip cracked.
Where can I get another."

A. Are you talking about a Thorens Disc Contact clamp (like the one pictured below (pic stolen from vinylengine))? If so I would have no idea. Probably would just have to hunt the net for one.

Q. Lastly, is regular old A1 iol to heavy ?

A. Everyone has their own idea of what is a good oil for the spindle bearing. I bought a vile of Van den Hul spindle oil a long time ago, and still have lots of it left. I'm not saying that it is the only oil you can use, just that this is what I use. I would say that a high quality 30 weight synthetic oil would work just fine.

Q. "Any comments on Deneon?"

A. I've had a couple of Denon products and found them to be quite superb in make and performance. I can't remark on your pieces since I have never owned or listened to any of them.

thorens_disk_contact.jpg
 
Sorry!
It's an TD 146 MK1.
The rubber matting is on TOP of the plinth.
There is also what appears to be a putty like substance in the middle and just before the "head" of the arm.
For wadded wieght I imagine.
SHould I remove these?
He must have put them there for a reason????
And is the belt riding on the right spot on the platter?
(What is the proper term for the wheel that the belt is on?)
The belt is on the very lowest area of this "wheel".
I thought I read one of the posters, I think it was Divotdog, that belt placement should be in the center of this "wheel".
Maybe I'm mistaken.
Thanks for your help guys!
As for the Grace cart...it's an F-9.
 
dasboot said:
Sorry!
It's an TD 146 MK1.
The rubber matting is on TOP of the plinth.
There is also what appears to be a putty like substance in the middle and just before the "head" of the arm.
For wadded wieght I imagine.
SHould I remove these?
He must have put them there for a reason????
And is the belt riding on the right spot on the platter?
(What is the proper term for the wheel that the belt is on?)
The belt is on the very lowest area of this "wheel".
I thought I read one of the posters, I think it was Divotdog, that belt placement should be in the center of this "wheel".
Maybe I'm mistaken.
Thanks for your help guys!
As for the Grace cart...it's an F-9.
Click to expand...


Bummer about the cartridge , those are very well rated but you can't get new stylus for them any more , someone may have found a source though ?

as for the rest I'll try and throw some pic's tonight showing the belt position on my 160 , should be the same as your's .
 
There are two sites that can help you a lot.

www.vinylengine.com probably has the owner's manual for your table or one like it. Must be a member to down load.

www.theanalogdept.com and lots of information about Thorens and upgrades, tweaks, adjustments, comments... a good place to spend some time to do a turntable tune-up.

The belt should ride parallel to the plinth at the level of the spindle section used for the speed you are using. There is the low level with the smaller part of the spindle on the motor (33 rpm), and low on the platter and the higher level of the spindle which is just above the center of the inner platter.

The putty substance might be something to reduce vibrations in the arm. Fine to leave it if the arm balances right and then after you learn the sound of your table, you can remove it, rebalance the arm and see if it sounds as good or better. Your choice.
 
a nice page...

is here
It is an owner's manual (in English) and has links to the analog dept, and vinyl engine.

In my opinion, I would remove everything to begin with, get the table in as close to original operating condition as possible, and then start modifications. The results will be very predictable.
 
Here's a pic of the belt on the pulley , the little U shaped thing is supposed to move the belt on the pulley to change speeds but I have never tried it .
The belt rides very low around the inner platter as you can see .Yours should be the same .Plug the sucka in and see if she plays .
 

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I am assuming you spun the belt with the upper platter off, hence the belt rode down without the weight of the upper platter. Once you put the upper platter on again, run the motor for 10 seconds or so, then turn it off, and take the upper platter off again, without touching the position of the lower platter, most likely, your belt will be in the center. If not, then your suspension is out of whack. The platter and arm "float" on springs, and the spring tension (3 springs underneath) can be adjusted for leveling and tension. If they are not adjusted properly, the platter could be sitting too high, as the position of the motor pulley is fixed to the chassis. This design was to decouple the platter and arm from any vibration the motor or chassis give off or pick-up. It worked well, but was very prone to footfalls. Read up on isolation for these tables...it pays off in big ways.

James R.
 
The belt rides very low around the inner platter as you can see .Yours should be the same .
Click to expand...
That's exactly where my belt sits.
most likely, your belt will be in the center. If not, then your suspension is out of whack.
Click to expand...
So that means my belt and ARjohns are both in the WRONG position???:scratch2:
 
Slotracer,
That's great man!
Thanks for the manual link!!!:thmbsp:
(I was a big slotracer myself back in the 60s when it first came out. Had one fast Chaparell!!)
 
Here is a shot of a belt riding in the correct position on the inner platter, it is slightly low but not at the bottom, the suspension on this table is set correctly.

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Thanks Divotdog!
I'm definitely too low than!
Will an old belt ride low also due to stretch?
So I guess a spring adjustment is in order as suggested by JW.
Thanks guys!
NOW, could someone tell me HOW TO POST A PIC!!!!
I looked all over the FAQ & User CP.
WHere is this info listed other than in a post?
I'm gonna do a thread search now also.
I have NEVER been on a site that had a straightforward "HOW TO POST A PHOTO"!!!
 
In 20 words or less, I use the "go advanced" to post, use the paper clip attachment feature, and add the photo from file. Make sure the image is less than 900dpi along the longest end, and keep the res fairly low (med or high jpg, don't do a tiff), otherwise it won't take.

I didn't want to startle dasboot, but at the bottom is too low as your flirting with it slipping off. Divotdogs picture is excellent as he flipped the upper platter upside down to keep the weight on the sub-platter and you can run the belt an watch it's position under load. When the platter is in place, there should be only about 1/4 inch of space between the platter and the chassis (IIMRC). I ran a 166 for many years (I use the funny rubber wheel kind Thorens now) and getting the suspension dialed in is an art, and very gratifying. If you change the geometry of the sprung platter in any way from factory spec (heavier platter mat, record clamp, dampening material, etc) you need to adjust the springs to get it rebalanced.

If your belt is original (or even more than a couple years old), then get a new one now. Make sure you get a reputable Thorens replacement belt as the generic ones can be too tight and put too much stress on the bearings, and keep all belt contact areas free from finger oils ( you should clean all belt areas with denatured alcohol).

James R.
 
As far as your Grace F-9 if the stylus assembly is still intact, you could get it retipped at the Sound-Smith.com. There lowest retip is 150$ but I think your Grace would be worth it.
 
jwrosenthal said:
In 20 words or less, I use the "go advanced" to post, use the paper clip attachment feature, and add the photo from file. Make sure the image is less than 900dpi along the longest end, and keep the res fairly low (med or high jpg, don't do a tiff), otherwise it won't take.

I didn't want to startle dasboot, but at the bottom is too low as your flirting with it slipping off. Divotdogs picture is excellent as he flipped the upper platter upside down to keep the weight on the sub-platter and you can run the belt an watch it's position under load. When the platter is in place, there should be only about 1/4 inch of space between the platter and the chassis (IIMRC). I ran a 166 for many years (I use the funny rubber wheel kind Thorens now) and getting the suspension dialed in is an art, and very gratifying. If you change the geometry of the sprung platter in any way from factory spec (heavier platter mat, record clamp, dampening material, etc) you need to adjust the springs to get it rebalanced.

If your belt is original (or even more than a couple years old), then get a new one now. Make sure you get a reputable Thorens replacement belt as the generic ones can be too tight and put too much stress on the bearings, and keep all belt contact areas free from finger oils ( you should clean all belt areas with denatured alcohol).

James R.
Click to expand...

JW is right on, if you are riding too low, you need to adjust the suspension, this can be frustrating the first time, but if you are going to run a Thorens it is a skill you must have as it needs done on a regular basis, at least every year or so.
 
Another must have with a Thorens, is a quality TT stand so you can adjust the suspension in place!

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Divotdog said:
Another must have with a Thorens, is a quality TT stand so you can adjust the suspension in place!

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Click to expand...

Friggin' genius!!! :yes: I use two archival white Lp storage boxes (like the "store-all" filing boxes) holding up the left and right side, and I can sit on the floor and work underneath while the table is running....mine are heavy and not nearly as fun as yours...considering you have to drink all 4 beers before you can get to work on your table. Now if you really need some extra clearance, perhaps you should start drinking Fosters.

James R.
 
jwrosenthal said:
Friggin' genius!!! :yes: I use two archival white Lp storage boxes (like the "store-all" filing boxes) holding up the left and right side, and I can sit on the floor and work underneath while the table is running....mine are heavy and not nearly as fun as yours...considering you have to drink all 4 beers before you can get to work on your table. Now if you really need some extra clearance, perhaps you should start drinking Fosters.

James R.
Click to expand...

I recently chaged to 24oz, more room and more fun, although I find it best to empty the TT stand after the work is done! :D
 
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