Thorens TD 160 Turntables

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camaronut

Active Member
Is it me, or am I not in tune with the Thorens "thing". I have a TD 160BC MKII, and for some reason, I'm not that crazy about it.
I mean - they're neat, but I'm not impressed at all with the build quality / motor - the whole thing is just too simplistic - which is why people like them so much?
I put so much into it to make it like a new deck, but ehhhhhh.

Call me crazy, but I bought a Audio Technica AT-LP140, and I'm totally satisfied. It may be a Technics SL1200 clone - but I installed an Ortofon 2M blue, and its great.

Like many things - different strokes for different folks.
 
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camaronut said:
I'm not impressed at all with the build quality / motor - the whole thing is just too simplistic - which is why people like them so much?
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No, people like them because of the results coming out of the speakers. They sound good.
The Philips GA-212/312 are also very good sounding but not impressive build tables. We like em cause they sound good.

The torque of a direct drive can sway folks into thinking the puny motor on a Thornes isn't any good but the sonic results, not the cleaning performance dragging a discwasher across the record is the characteristic that should carry more in the evaluation of tables.
 
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Thorens tables are quiet and not prone to acoustic feedback if they are on something solid. Personally I like simple. I have an allergy to electronics in my turntables, and a Thorens with it's extreme electrical simplicity works for me. My other tables are idler drives that are just as electrically simple. They aren't as quiet though.
 
Simple works for me, not sure why and seemingly more so as I get older. I have a Thorens TD-165. Simple and sounds great to me.

If you want to see real simple and an engineering marvel, check out an AR turntable and the below two links. I also have an AR XB and am amazed.

Official AR Turntable Owners Thread

Just about every other turntable has an owners thread on AK. It is time for all AR turntable lovers to post pics of their table. This is for ALL AR Models that is either in original condition, or if they have been upgraded or modded. This is my AR ES-1 that was restored and upgraded by Marc...
audiokarma.org

 
camaronut said:
Is it me, or am I not in tune with the Thorens "thing". I have a TD 160BC MKII, and for some reason, I'm not that crazy about it.
I mean - they're neat, but I'm not impressed at all with the build quality / motor - the whole thing is just too simplistic - which is why people like them so much?
I put so much into it to make it like a new deck, but ehhhhhh.

Call me crazy, but I bought a Audio Technica AT-LP140, and I'm totally satisfied. It may be a Technics SL1200 clone - but I installed an Ortofon 2M blue, and its great.

Like many things - different strokes for different folks.
Click to expand...

It's definitely you, my little Thorens TD-166MKII is superior to the table your LP140 wishes it were, the Technics SL-1200MKII. Added to this the "little table that could" the ultimately simple AR XA the Thorens was to replace saw it to the bedroom system.
 
I should have mention the Formula 4 tonearm that's on it.....my experience with it is not a good one .......its a real pain, plus I swear I hear flutter in the Thorens.....
Believe me, I want to like the Thorens - I just don't like the simplicity vs. what people pay for them.....IMO.
I did everything possible to make it right - everything. I thought it was me at first, so I asked my wife to listen and she hears it too. At that point I was rather disappointed, because I wanted to like it. I put so much work into it to make it perfect.

Sorry - not trying to ruffle peoples feathers here......I'm not knocking other enthusiasts Thorens turntable - I just like the LP140 better. I turn it on - its spot on speed-wise and I hear absolutely no flutter like I did in the Thorens and I hear no difference. My tinnitus makes sure of that.

So......I'm still going to hold onto it.....lets calm down folks. This is just my take on it.
 
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camaronut said:
I should have mention the Formula 4 tonearm that's on it.....my experience with it is not a good one .......its a real pain, plus I swear I hear flutter in the Thorens.....
Believe me, I want to like the Thorens - I just don't like the simplicity vs. what people pay for them.....IMO.
I did everything possible to make it right - everything. I thought it was me at first, so I asked my wife to listen and she hears it too. At that point I was rather disappointed, because I wanted to like it. I put so much work into it to make it perfect.

Sorry - not trying to ruffle peoples feathers here......I'm not knocking other enthusiasts Thorens turntable - I just like the LP140 better. I turn it on - its spot on speed-wise and I hear absolutely no flutter like I did in the Thorens and I hear no difference. My tinnitus makes sure of that.

So......I'm still going to hold onto it.....lets calm down folks. This is just my take on it.
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You asked for opions and received them, no-one here needs to "calm down".

It's highly likely you had the wrong belt if hearing flutter, you wouldn't be the first to have that issue, only a true Thorens belt will work, trust me on that.

Added to this the Mayware Formula IV arm isn't the easiest to deal with, better men than I have been driven mad with frustration trying to work with it. And yet once working correctly can be a wonderful piece.

It's also a very low mass arm that very few modern cartridges work with, what cartridges did you try?

The Thorens is a classic that will only appreciate in value, the AT.........not so much.
 
yeah belt issues make Thorens tables act poorly. Only the OEM ones really work, and if the motor adjustment or the speed shifter thing isn't adjusted right it will rub and cause problems.

also if the bearing well hasn't been cleaned and re-oiled in the last few decades, give that a go.

I won't tell you its the best solution for all situations. Mine sat un-used for several years because of bad flooring issues. The bounce in the floor happened to be around the same frequency as the suspension and my little 13 lb dog walking across the floor would send the arm flying around. Now that i've got solid flooring it works very well though.
 
I purchased an OEM Thorens belt and still the same issue. I checked the alignment of the belt speed transfer arm - all clear. Re-lubed the main bearing well - still same.
I removed the motor and took it apart, and swapped the axle bushings to keep it from doing that repetitive tapping noise (yes I used the glue-on axle lifter gizmo too to no avail) - and replaced the capacitors also - I wanted to make sure this unit was completed correctly and as new as it can be.
As far as the cartridge, I used an Ortofon 2M Blue.
I totally agree that the Thorens will appreciate in value. I must have one that is possessed. lol....
 
camaronut said:
I purchased an OEM Thorens belt and still the same issue. I checked the alignment of the belt speed transfer arm - all clear. Re-lubed the main bearing well - still same.
I removed the motor and took it apart, and swapped the axle bushings to keep it from doing that repetitive tapping noise (yes I used the glue-on axle lifter gizmo too to no avail) - and replaced the capacitors also - I wanted to make sure this unit was completed correctly and as new as it can be.
As far as the cartridge, I used an Ortofon 2M Blue.
I totally agree that the Thorens will appreciate in value. I must have one that is possessed. lol....
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There's a reason so many different turntables are on the market, no one table is for everyone. Great that you're getting the results you're looking for from the AT, it's reasonably priced and should serve you well for many yrs.

One more point on the Thorens, if not ready to completely give up on the table you might want to try upgrading the drive pulley. You lose the clutch but gain in SQ, and I see there are now some that retain the clutch assembly, can't comment on their effectiveness though.

My TD-166MKII
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That was my next / final move (I still have the original clutch mechanism)......thanks for the pics - I appreciate it!!!
 
What exactly does the metal pulley do for it? My 160 is still sporting the original clutch and its working but some recent measurements indicate W/F is probably higher than it ought to be. I haven't poked into it to see if there are any obvious reasons though.
 
gadget73 said:
What exactly does the metal pulley do for it? My 160 is still sporting the original clutch and its working but some recent measurements indicate W/F is probably higher than it ought to be. I haven't poked into it to see if there are any obvious reasons though.
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Not sure if it's the higher tolerance of the metal pulley or the removal of the clutch but SQ is improved across the board, definite improvement in speed stability.

To lessen belt wear and torque on the motor I give the platter a bit of assistance by hand at startup, no big deal I've done the same for the AR for yrs. I also do the same with the Well Tempered Lab Turntable, belts art cheap lol.
 
The Formula IV tonearm is decent for the high compliance cartridges. I did not find it hard to set up and really just set it and it played fine. Of course that was 35-40 years ago.
 
My conclusion to all this is - (and I might be wrong) I don't think that the Formula 4 tonearm is a good match for Thorens turntables. With this combination, everything has to be perfect - physical alignment, & balance; along with the pivot on the tone arm, the rear weight alignment to make the tonearm absolutely in the correct vertical position when the needle hits the vinyl - if one adjustment is off, everything is off. Getting the turntable's suspension "just right" so it bounces continually took me almost two hours to get right with new springs and for that - the turntable itself has to be perfectly level with the new belt installed. In the end - the fluttering sent me off the cliff - I was done.
So for now, I'll enjoy my AT140 and be content.
I'll hold onto the Thorens for another day until I can acquire an adequate Thorens tonearm that doesn't need all the additional attention.
Thanks for the replies.....much appreciated.
 
Sgt Shultz said:
You asked for opions and received them, no-one here needs to "calm down".

It's highly likely you had the wrong belt if hearing flutter, you wouldn't be the first to have that issue, only a true Thorens belt will work, trust me on that.

Added to this the Mayware Formula IV arm isn't the easiest to deal with, better men than I have been driven mad with frustration trying to work with it. And yet once working correctly can be a wonderful piece.

It's also a very low mass arm that very few modern cartridges work with, what cartridges did you try?

The Thorens is a classic that will only appreciate in value, the AT.........not so much.
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The sarge is right. These are rising in value yearly. I bought one about 12 years ago for $180 CAD. Sold it in 2019 for $550. At the time, I got top dollar for it. About a year or two later, I saw a similar condition go for $950. Crazy!

I was never a fan of that family of Ortofon cartridge on mine. I preferred the Ortofon VMS 15 XE MK II or any other Ortofon of that family.
 
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I feel your pain. I've picked up many TD 160s and never felt inclined to keep one. They sounded fine, but not better than many other tables, and the build quality depressed me.
On the other hand, the Formula IV is one of my favorite arms, though I'm talking of the Maywares - the JH, even if it was the original, isn't built to as high a standard. They need to be set up properly and checked now and again, but if you can get past the tippiness when handling (just move slowly), they are rock solid in use. The variable mass feature allows a fairly wide range of cartridges to work well, but obviously high compliance cartridges are its real strength. And the Decca Londons work wonderfully with the damping, which is about as good as you can get in the vinyl world, in my opinion.
 
Bought my Thorens TD-160 for only $12 at thrift store, years ago. Was in excellent shape. Added some dings to plinth from upgrading. Added dynamat underneath top plate. Have Jelco TS-550S MKII tonearm and also added Music Hall Cruise Control 2.0 speed box. New platter bearing thrust plate. Sounds incredible with all upgrades!

bch smb 5.JPG
 
Sgt Shultz said:
There's a reason so many different turntables are on the market, no one table is for everyone. Great that you're getting the results you're looking for from the AT, it's reasonably priced and should serve you well for many yrs.

One more point on the Thorens, if not ready to completely give up on the table you might want to try upgrading the drive pulley. You lose the clutch but gain in SQ, and I see there are now some that retain the clutch assembly, can't comment on their effectiveness though.

My TD-166MKII
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View attachment 3166848
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The belt is going to wear out much faster because you don't have clutch system.
 
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