Using DAP as hifi source

[ow81]

Hi,

I fairly recently bought a Streamer, the Project Streambox S2, and find the device is simply not up to the job for playing my large FLAC collection (1-2TB). It just doesn't seem to have enough computing power and takes ages to display my files in the app when I initially turn it on, up to 4 or 5 minutes. It also struggles when I select a track from a different album often, it takes forever to load the new track.

Anyway I've been contemplating buying a Wiim Ultra for a while now but then I had an idea; my DAP a Hiby R3ii lets you set the 3.5mm jack output as a LO. So I've used a 3.5 to RCA cable to plug the DAP into my amp. Theres an app called Hiby music that enables you to control the DAP from a phone, you can browse through and select your music the app works really well with no lagging problems.

It seems to me that the sound is good from this arrangement, they do sell a dock that acts as a stand and has usb c for charging and usb dac and RCA sockets on the back for line out. But at nearly £200 I can't see the point in buying this I can just use cables to connect the Usb C and line out.

I know the R3ii is a fairly budget DAC which will affect things but it has dual es9219 DAC chips. Is there any reason that anyone can see why this set up would be worse for a sound point of view when compared to using a device like the Wiim, ignoring the specs of the devices but why the setup would be inferior? I don't think there is but would be interested to know.

 

[linuxfan]

Your Hiby R3ii/Hiby Music app combination is a perfectly usable setup, though I think your ultimate satisfaction will depend on whether you like the Hiby Music user interface.

Regarding your bad experience with the Project StreamBox S2 -
I understand from a different forum thread that your FLAC files are on a removable SSD drive(?). I must say that connecting a storage device directly to a streamer is generally sub-optimal. Streamers such as StreamBox and WiiM are really aimed at being endpoints or renderers, intended to receive streams from a separate music server. In fact the entry-level WiiM models don't even offer direct USB storage connection - this feature is only available on the WiiM Ultra and WiiM Amp.
Streamers typically offer some form of inbuilt music server/management as an afterthought, and as you have learned from your experience with the StreamBox, that function can be kludgey - both in terms of responsiveness and user interface.
In fairness, I've heard that Bluesound streamers do offer a direct data storage connection with a half-decent player interface, but generally speaking streamers work best with a local music library when that library is managed from a separate server. That server can be located on your personal computer, or a separate dedicated computer, or (cleverly) on a NAS box. If any of those options are possible and practical for you, then I encourage you to go ahead and set this up, initially with a DLNA server application (upgrade to a Lyrion server later) - then your StreamBox S2 should work well as a DLNA renderer.

 

[ow81]

Your Hiby R3ii/Hiby Music app combination is a perfectly usable setup, though I think your ultimate satisfaction will depend on whether you like the Hiby Music user interface.

Regarding your bad experience with the Project StreamBox S2 -
I understand from a different forum thread that your FLAC files are on a removable SSD drive(?). I must say that connecting a storage device directly to a streamer is generally sub-optimal. Streamers such as StreamBox and WiiM are really aimed at being endpoints or renderers, intended to receive streams from a separate music server. In fact the entry-level WiiM models don't even offer direct USB storage connection - this feature is only available on the WiiM Ultra and WiiM Amp.
Streamers typically offer some form of inbuilt music server/management as an afterthought, and as you have learned from your experience with the StreamBox, that function can be kludgey - both in terms of responsiveness and user interface.
In fairness, I've heard that Bluesound streamers do offer a direct data storage connection with a half-decent player interface, but generally speaking streamers work best with a local music library when that library is managed from a separate server. That server can be located on your personal computer, or a separate dedicated computer, or (cleverly) on a NAS box. If any of those options are possible and practical for you, then I encourage you to go ahead and set this up, initially with a DLNA server application (upgrade to a Lyrion server later) - then your StreamBox S2 should work well as a DLNA renderer.

The Hiby music app is fine for my needs, I generally use the folder view to browse my music which is arranged in an artist/album/tracks structure.

The only slight thing is the player runs off an internal battery, I can plug a usb charger in while I'm using it but this means the player is going to get a lot more use than when I only use it as a portable player, so I guess the internal battery will eventually stop holding charge. It looks like it's a sealed unit so I guess it would be fairly difficult to open it up and replace the battery eventually.

With regards to the server option I did try to set things up on my laptop, but was having problems working out how to link the streambox to the laptop. If you can help me with this or point my in the direction of where I can find this out that would be helpful. I can't see in the manual for the streambox how I would link a folder or server?? or similar on my laptop to the box.

 

[linuxfan]

With regards to the server option I did try to set things up on my laptop ...

I will guess you mean a Windows laptop.
First install and run a DLNA server on your laptop. Windows does have an inbuilt DLNA server function, but I distrust it! So instead I suggest you install MinimServer 2.2 from -
https://minimserver.com/downloads.html
First make sure you have Java installed. During installation of MinimServer Windows Defender Firewall will ask if you wish to allow private and/or public network access - allow both. It sounds wrong to allow public network access, but I just tested it now, and MinimServer cannot be seen on my local network unless I allow public access.
When you run MinimServer the first time, it will prompt you for the location of your local music library (possibly your external SSD drive?). That's the only configuration required.
Now install a DLNA control app on your phone - I suggest BubbleUPnP.
Now with your laptop, phone, and StreamBox all connected to the same wifi router, launch BubbleUPnp, and configure it to find both the server and renderer -
Click on "More" then the icon that looks like a dark folder - you should see MinimServer listed. Select it.
Click on "More" then the icon that looks like a casting symbol - you should see your StreamBox listed. Select it.
Now go to Library > Artist > Album
and in the drop-down menu select "Enqueue". Now go to "Playlist" and start playing.

 

[ow81]

I will guess you mean a Windows laptop.
First install and run a DLNA server on your laptop. Windows does have an inbuilt DLNA server function, but I distrust it! So instead I suggest you install MinimServer 2.2 from -
https://minimserver.com/downloads.html
First make sure you have Java installed. During installation of MinimServer Windows Defender Firewall will ask if you wish to allow private and/or public network access - allow both. It sounds wrong to allow public network access, but I just tested it now, and MinimServer cannot be seen on my local network unless I allow public access.
When you run MinimServer the first time, it will prompt you for the location of your local music library (possibly your external SSD drive?). That's the only configuration required.
Now install a DLNA control app on your phone - I suggest BubbleUPnP.
Now with your laptop, phone, and StreamBox all connected to the same wifi network, launch BubbleUPnp, and configure it to find both the server and renderer -
Click on "More" then the icon that looks like a dark folder - you should see MinimServer listed. Select it.
Click on "More" then the icon that looks like a casting symbol - you should see your StreamBox listed. Select it.
Now go to Library > Artist > Album
and in the drop-down menu select "Enqueue". Now go to "Playlist" and start playing.

Cool, thank you, I have to go to work in just a minute but am going to try this when I get back later. I'll let you know how I get on, hopefully you've solved my problem! Cheers

 

[ow81]

I will guess you mean a Windows laptop.
First install and run a DLNA server on your laptop. Windows does have an inbuilt DLNA server function, but I distrust it! So instead I suggest you install MinimServer 2.2 from -
https://minimserver.com/downloads.html
First make sure you have Java installed. During installation of MinimServer Windows Defender Firewall will ask if you wish to allow private and/or public network access - allow both. It sounds wrong to allow public network access, but I just tested it now, and MinimServer cannot be seen on my local network unless I allow public access.
When you run MinimServer the first time, it will prompt you for the location of your local music library (possibly your external SSD drive?). That's the only configuration required.
Now install a DLNA control app on your phone - I suggest BubbleUPnP.
Now with your laptop, phone, and StreamBox all connected to the same wifi router, launch BubbleUPnp, and configure it to find both the server and renderer -
Click on "More" then the icon that looks like a dark folder - you should see MinimServer listed. Select it.
Click on "More" then the icon that looks like a casting symbol - you should see your StreamBox listed. Select it.
Now go to Library > Artist > Album
and in the drop-down menu select "Enqueue". Now go to "Playlist" and start playing.

Excellent, it's working perfectly! Thanks loads mate! So looks like the streambox isn't completely useless as I was beginning to think to myself. The sound was never a problem it was just the lagging etc of the software. I'm impressed!

 

[ow81]

I will guess you mean a Windows laptop.
First install and run a DLNA server on your laptop. Windows does have an inbuilt DLNA server function, but I distrust it! So instead I suggest you install MinimServer 2.2 from -
https://minimserver.com/downloads.html
First make sure you have Java installed. During installation of MinimServer Windows Defender Firewall will ask if you wish to allow private and/or public network access - allow both. It sounds wrong to allow public network access, but I just tested it now, and MinimServer cannot be seen on my local network unless I allow public access.
When you run MinimServer the first time, it will prompt you for the location of your local music library (possibly your external SSD drive?). That's the only configuration required.
Now install a DLNA control app on your phone - I suggest BubbleUPnP.
Now with your laptop, phone, and StreamBox all connected to the same wifi router, launch BubbleUPnp, and configure it to find both the server and renderer -
Click on "More" then the icon that looks like a dark folder - you should see MinimServer listed. Select it.
Click on "More" then the icon that looks like a casting symbol - you should see your StreamBox listed. Select it.
Now go to Library > Artist > Album
and in the drop-down menu select "Enqueue". Now go to "Playlist" and start playing.

It's working excellently and I'm really pleased, there's just one slight thing I wonder if you can help me out with? So my laptop is on permanently upstairs but obviously goes into sleep mode after some time. I've found if I stay connected the player will keep letting me play as long as I like. The only thing I've found is if I close the app down after I've finished using it, when I reopen it, it finds to the streambox straight away, but to get the server to appear again I have to go back upstairs and open the laptop up, sign in again and then the server instantly appears again in the app. Is there a way to make it always appear, the computer is always on its only in sleep mode really,

 

[linuxfan]

So my laptop is on permanently upstairs but obviously goes into sleep mode after some time.

In sleep mode, or just logged out?
I suspect one solution is to configure Windows to disable automatic logout -

This involves running the command "secpol.msc" - which is not available on my Windows 10 installation, possibly because I have Windows 10 Home Edition.

But I have a more thorough solution - completely disable your Windows password -
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/answers/questions/2785753/remove-password-from-windows-10
Not everyone will be comfortable with this!

 

[ow81]

In sleep mode, or just logged out?
I suspect one solution is to configure Windows to disable automatic logout -

This involves running the command "secpol.msc" - which is not available on my Windows 10 installation, possibly because I have Windows 10 Home Edition.

But I have a more thorough solution - completely disable your Windows password -
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/answers/questions/2785753/remove-password-from-windows-10
Not everyone will be comfortable with this!

I also have windows 10 home edition and am also not too worried about lacking password protection, my laptop is kinda old and not worth a lot these days these days so doubt anyone would want to steal it. I don't have any confidential stuff on my laptop anyway, things like banking are on my phone so that solution will sort it out fine .

I've noticed sometimes the server needs restarting and as it disappears in BubbleUPnP, is there a way I can restart the server remotely from my phone?

This is generally a really cool solution, I should have done this before but as I said I didn't really know what I was doing or know the best software to use etc. The BubbleUPnP interface is fairly plain stylistically but it functionally it does everything I can think I need.

Thanks again for helping me out with this, much appreciated!

 

[ow81]

In sleep mode, or just logged out?
I suspect one solution is to configure Windows to disable automatic logout -

This involves running the command "secpol.msc" - which is not available on my Windows 10 installation, possibly because I have Windows 10 Home Edition.

But I have a more thorough solution - completely disable your Windows password -
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/answers/questions/2785753/remove-password-from-windows-10
Not everyone will be comfortable with this!

Right so can you tell me if I have understood this correctly; if I were to buy a NAS drive and put all my FLAC files on and then connect this drive either to my WiFi, or even by an ethernet cable to the router. Then I could play any files on the NAS using the BubbleUPnP app on the streambox? Or do I still need the server on the laptop linked to the NAS in the same way the folder containing all the music is linked to the server currently?

 

[ow81]

I also have windows 10 home edition and am also not too worried about lacking password protection, my laptop is kinda old and not worth a lot these days these days so doubt anyone would want to steal it. I don't have any confidential stuff on my laptop anyway, things like banking are on my phone so that solution will sort it out fine .

I've noticed sometimes the server needs restarting and as it disappears in BubbleUPnP, is there a way I can restart the server remotely from my phone?

This is generally a really cool solution, I should have done this before but as I said I didn't really know what I was doing or know the best software to use etc. The BubbleUPnP interface is fairly plain stylistically but it functionally it does everything I can think I need.

Thanks again for helping me out with this, much appreciated!

More specifically I've found a NAS that has a quad core A55 processor and 1GB RAM. Would this be anywhere near powerful enough to run the server connected with a 2TB SSD with all the music? Or would I need a much more powerful NAS/one with more RAM? It's working really well with the server on my laptop at the moment but I like the idea of having a NAS just plugged into one of the router ethernet ports then it could just be left permanently plugged in/turned on and wouldn't ever be slowed down by the laptops poor performance. I've set the laptop so it doesn't sleep now too, the screen turns off after five minutes of inactivity but the computer is running still so the server is always accessible, I assume there's nothing particularly wrong with doing this?

 

[linuxfan]

if I were to buy a NAS drive and put all my FLAC files on and then connect this drive either to my WiFi, or even by an ethernet cable to the router. Then I could play any files on the NAS using the BubbleUPnP app on the streambox? Or do I still need the server on the laptop ...

NAS boxes are more than just external drives - they are fully fledged computers, and depending on brand/model, NAS boxes usually include some form of DLNA/uPnP server. So yes, a NAS box can act as DLNA server, not relying on a separate computer for this task.
Choices of entry-level NAS models have dwindled in recent years - it appears to me that single-drive models for home use now come down to the Synology DS124 (I have an older version of this) and the QNAP TS-133. Both include a DLNA server.

 

[linuxfan]

I've found a NAS that has a quad core A55 processor and 1GB RAM. Would this be anywhere near powerful enough to run the server connected with a 2TB SSD with all the music?

Easily powerful enough. What brand/model?

 

[ow81]

Easily powerful enough. What brand/model?

It is some kind of Chinese unknown make called Orico, so maybe best avoided, could be fine though? The Synology one you mention is £149 on Amazon and has 2GB ram, the Chinese one is only £70 but it's an AliExpress job that means getting shipped from China. At least with the Amazon one if it breaks in the first few months I can easily return it. You've really opened my eyes I don't think I really understood the ideal setup for a streamer before this. I assume this must be how my friend has his Plex server for films setup. So you could even potentially have all your music setup so it could be accessed remotely from different locations over the internet? I don't particularly think I'd do that as it must need a more powerful NAS?

 

[ow81]

Easily powerful enough. What brand/model?

I assume if I do go with the NAS setup I can set my media player on my computer up so that when I rip any new CDs I get in future it saves to the NAS rather than the computer storage? How would I make the NAS appear as a location on my laptop? Sorry I'm getting really carried away now, I'm really into this new world you've introduced me to, lol!

 

[ow81]

Just thought of another one, this might be getting a bit ambitious and I'm guessing would depend on higher spec hardware all round but could I in theory:-
- Have the NAS with the music on connected to the internet
- Access the music remotely using my DAP connected to the phones WiFi hotspot

I have the music on the microSD on the DAP but I'm just thinking if such a system worked effectively if I could rip the music to the NAS as I said before then I wouldn't have all this copying of files between devices that I do now every time I buy a new CD. I realise I'd be using my mobile data with this setup but I currently get 80GB of data a month, surely none of this would run that out easily?

 

[linuxfan]

some kind of Chinese unknown make called Orico

I advise against that - I bought something similar a few years ago - the included server software was unique, requiring the company's own (ugly) app to control it. And it was not possible to install third-party software.

The Synology one you mention is £149 on Amazon

The QNAP TS-133 is the same price. A slightly cheaper option is to go DIY using a Raspberry Pi (or similar) but this requires an elevated skill-set.
If you want to save money a good option might be to search out the just-outdated Synology DS120j - maybe it sells for a run-out price?

I assume if I do go with the NAS setup I can set my media player on my computer up so that when I rip any new CDs I get in future it saves to the NAS rather than the computer storage?

Yes ... although I prefer to rip to local hard drive first, then copy to NAS later - that means I always have two copies of my music library. If the local drive fails, I replace the drive and copy back from NAS. If my NAS drive fails, I replace the drive and copy back from local drive.

How would I make the NAS appear as a location on my laptop?

https://kb.netgear.com/19864/How-do-I-map-a-network-drive-in-Windows

Have the NAS with the music on connected to the internet

Yes, but there are security implications.

Access the music remotely using my DAP connected to the phones WiFi hotspot

Yes, depending on whether the DAP has such ability/feature. It might be better accessing the music directly from your phone.

 

[ow81]

I advise against that - I bought something similar a few years ago - the included server software was unique, requiring the company's own (ugly) app to control it. And it was not possible to install third-party software.


The QNAP TS-133 is the same price. A slightly cheaper option is to go DIY using a Raspberry Pi (or similar) but this requires an elevated skill-set.
If you want to save money a good option might be to search out the just-outdated Synology DS120j - maybe it sells for a run-out price?


Yes ... although I prefer to rip to local hard drive first, then copy to NAS later - that means I always have two copies of my music library. If the local drive fails, I replace the drive and copy back from NAS. If my NAS drive fails, I replace the drive and copy back from local drive.


https://kb.netgear.com/19864/How-do-I-map-a-network-drive-in-Windows


Yes, but there are security implications.


Yes, depending on whether the DAP has such ability/feature. It might be better accessing the music directly from your phone.

I've been looking at the possibility of using a raspberry pi, the pi5 has a faster processor than the Synology and more RAM (was thinking of 8 or even 16GB with the pi) but the Google is telling me that the Synology would be faster than the raspberry pi. In both cases I would be using the SSD plugged into the usb port of each, I realise with the Synology it might make more sense to use a internal drive eventually and the pi doesn't have that functionality. It's saying something about the gigabit ethernet port on the pi being a limitation. I understand what the ethernet port is but is the port on the pi inferior to that on the Synology and would this make more difference than having the extra RAM and processor with the A76 cores and higher clock speed?

 

[linuxfan]

I would be using the SSD plugged into the usb port of each, I realise with the Synology it might make more sense to use a internal drive eventually and the pi doesn't have that functionality.

Yes with the Synology it would make more sense to buy a dedicated internal SATA SSD drive, rather than attach a storage drive externally via USB. Even if you do go with the external option, it's still necessary to install some form of internal SATA drive (even a small capacity drive) because the NAS needs an internal drive to run its "DSM" operating system.

The rPi can connect to a SATA drive, via a SATA expansion hat, such as this -
https://geekworm.com/products/X1007
though for the sake of being compact, it makes more sense to connect to M.2/NVME storage instead of a SATA drive, via a hat or base adapter -
https://raspberry.piaustralia.com.au/products/nvme-base
https://www.amazon.com.au/GeeekPi-52Pi-Raspberry-Peripheral-Board/dp/B0CRK4YB4C
https://www.amazon.com.au/GeeekPi-Raspberry-Peripheral-Active-Cooler/dp/B0CYP68GDH

I hope you appreciate that setting up a rPi is non-trivial. Here are two HOWTO's for setting up a Pi as NAS - the first is the fully manual approach -
https://www.raspberrypi.com/tutorials/nas-box-raspberry-pi-tutorial/
the second involves installing openmediavault -
https://core-electronics.com.au/guides/how-to-raspberry-pi-nas/
I suggest you read through those HOWTO's to get an idea of whether you're comfortable undertaking such a project.

 

[ow81]

Yes with the Synology it would make more sense to buy a dedicated internal SATA SSD drive, rather than attach a storage drive externally via USB. Even if you do go with the external option, it's still necessary to install some form of internal SATA drive (even a small capacity drive) because the NAS needs an internal drive to run its "DSM" operating system.

The rPi can connect to a SATA drive, via a SATA expansion hat, such as this -
https://geekworm.com/products/X1007
though for the sake of being compact, it makes more sense to connect to M.2/NVME storage instead of a SATA drive, via a hat or base adapter -
https://raspberry.piaustralia.com.au/products/nvme-base
https://www.amazon.com.au/GeeekPi-52Pi-Raspberry-Peripheral-Board/dp/B0CRK4YB4C
https://www.amazon.com.au/GeeekPi-Raspberry-Peripheral-Active-Cooler/dp/B0CYP68GDH

I hope you appreciate that setting up a rPi is non-trivial. Here are two HOWTO's for setting up a Pi as NAS - the first is the fully manual approach -
https://www.raspberrypi.com/tutorials/nas-box-raspberry-pi-tutorial/
the second involves installing openmediavault -
https://core-electronics.com.au/guides/how-to-raspberry-pi-nas/
I suggest you read through those HOWTO's to get an idea of whether you're comfortable undertaking such a project.

It might be much easier to go with the Synology but I was just thinking with the raspberry pi route I could end up something much more powerful for less outlay. I guess as long as the Synology or QNAP would be able to do what I want them to do without lagging, slowdowns then there might not be any point in going down the pi route. I might also put films on the drive too as my TV comes up as a renderer in BubbleUPnP, I assume the Synology or QNAP would cope with streaming films to my TV too?