Vibrating Tonearm: Bad Stylus, Bad Pressing or Bad Adjustment?

[cubdukat]

I finally replaced the stylus on my VM95 cartridge, which was attached to my Music Hall mmf-2.2. I had previously been using the SH stylus, and it was way past the 800 hour mark and I was concerned I might be doing damage to my records/ I ended up going back to the VMN95ML, but within 24 hours of getting it, I ended up sending it back to Amazon because I noticed that on certain recordings, the tonearm was noticeably vibrating, almost quivering, and that was getting into the vinyl rips.

From my understanding, this is usually an indication that the stylus and/or cartridge wasn't meant for that tonearm, but I have used both the ML and SH styli for several years with this never happening.

I'm trying to figure out where the problem might lay before I get another one. There are only three variables I can think of: Bad stylus, bad pressing, or bad tonearm adjustment?

First, the stylus. I didn't see anything wrong with it under inspection, but I have gotten somewhat dodgy styli from Amazon before; the previous ML stylus I got from them had a slightly crooked cantilever, for which I was able to compensate. This one didn't have that, and I redid the alignment when I put it in. So with that, I can only imagine that the rubber grommet where the cantilever makes contact with the cartridge innards was weak. So I suspect that quality control at Audio Technica is clearly not what it should be. The other reason I suspect the stylus is that this also happened with the VM95 on my AT-LP140XP, which has a substantially heavier tonearm.

Second, the pressings of the two albums where the problems were the worst. Both of them were recent 180g pressings of the Stones' "Goats Head Soup" and the 2018 remix of Pink Floyd's "Animals." "Goats Head Soup" was especially bad, because the tonearm was vibrating so much that it skipped a few times. Neither of them skipped when the previous ML and SH styli were used. Also, both were clamped or ripping.

Finally, the issue of bad adjustment. Shortly before I got the new ML stylus, I went in and readjusted the tonearm height to compensate for the more worn cantilevers of both previous styli. I also saw there was a second screw to the right of the height adjustment that appeared to be all the way out. I screwed that one all the way in. I'm not sure what it's for, but I noticed an immediate tightening of the bass. It appears that it has something to do with tracking, so it must have tightened things up. Is it possible that it may have tightened things up too much? Again, neither of the used styli exhibited these problems even after the tightening.

I'm pretty sure that all it was was a bad stylus, but I am hesitant at ordering another replacement ML stylus until I figure out what caused that. I was wondering if anyone had any insights...

 

[CrSens]

Probably the cantilever suspension is too soft, pushing compliance much higher and system resonance entering the frequencies where record warps can induce resonance during playback. Return the stylus.

 

[cubdukat]

Probably the cantilever suspension is too soft, pushing compliance much higher and system resonance entering the frequencies where record warps can induce resonance during playback. Return the stylus.

I sent it back the next day, but Amazon hasn't gotten it back yet. I figured it was the stylus because it did that on two separate turntables, and the older ones didn't even do that when they were new. It's probably just a bad production run from AT, which is disappointing because the ML and higher are made in Japan. Admittedly that may just apply only to the bodies...

 

[patient_ot]

Probably the cantilever suspension is too soft, pushing compliance much higher and system resonance entering the frequencies where record warps can induce resonance during playback. Return the stylus.

Unlikely. The VM95s have been tested to have a Western compliance of around 13 CU. Hardly a "soft" suspension. None of the ones I tested were "soft" either, especially not in comparison to the VM500/700 series, which are much more compliant (lab tests and home resonance tests prove this).

Now, the MH turntables, especially the low-end ones, are not that great and the tonearms themselves are flimsy and tend to be quite resonant. A poorly made arm will be more likely to vibrate on pressing bubbles, small defects that are hard to see, pinch warps, edge warps, etc. than a better arm. That can happen even if the cart/arm combo is a good match on paper and with a resonance test.

@cubdukat , do you have a video of the stylus behavior? Also, does this MH 2.2 come with a carbon fiber arm or the aluminum one? Do you have a picture? I can't keep track of all the MH models and variants and their user manuals seem to be lacking basic specs. I know they use Pro-Ject parts for a lot of their turntables.

 

[patient_ot]

I sent it back the next day, but Amazon hasn't gotten it back yet. I figured it was the stylus because it did that on two separate turntables, and the older ones didn't even do that when they were new. It's probably just a bad production run from AT, which is disappointing because the ML and higher are made in Japan. Admittedly that may just apply only to the bodies...

The whole cart is made in Japan. I've never had a defective AT stylus but it is possible, and I've had a bunch of them. FWIW defects on AT styli usually have nothing to do with the suspension but a cantilever or diamond that is off-center. This can and does happen with any cartridge brand BTW, even some very expensive cartridges that cost thousands of dollars.

Note: if you want to try another stylus I would recommend buying from AT directly. If you experience any problems they can test the stylus for you and determine if it's the stylus or your equipment, records, or user error.

 

[patient_ot]

Finally, the issue of bad adjustment. Shortly before I got the new ML stylus, I went in and readjusted the tonearm height to compensate for the more worn cantilevers of both previous styli. I also saw there was a second screw to the right of the height adjustment that appeared to be all the way out. I screwed that one all the way in. I'm not sure what it's for, but I noticed an immediate tightening of the bass. It appears that it has something to do with tracking, so it must have tightened things up. Is it possible that it may have tightened things up too much? Again, neither of the used styli exhibited these problems even after the tightening.

I would want to know the purpose of something before adjusting it. Also, if you are adjusting tonearm height, it's a good idea to check other settings like VTF after. Do you have a picture of this screw? It might be for something completely different than what you thought.

 

[CrSens]

Unlikely. The VM95s have been tested to have a Western compliance of around 13 CU. Hardly a "soft" suspension. None of the ones I tested were "soft" either, especially not in comparison to the VM500/700 series, which are much more compliant (lab tests and home resonance tests prove this).

Now, the MH turntables, especially the low-end ones, are not that great and the tonearms themselves are flimsy and tend to be quite resonant. A poorly made arm will be more likely to vibrate on pressing bubbles, small defects that are hard to see, pinch warps, edge warps, etc. than a better arm. That can happen even if the cart/arm combo is a good match on paper and with a resonance test.

@cubdukat , do you have a video of the stylus behavior? Also, does this MH 2.2 come with a carbon fiber arm or the aluminum one? Do you have a picture? I can't keep track of all the MH models and variants and their user manuals seem to be lacking basic specs. I know they use Pro-Ject parts for a lot of their turntables.

He tested it on two different turntables, and previous ML40 styluses were not doing it. You think both tonearms suddenly became bad?

 

[patient_ot]

He tested it on two different turntables, and previous ML40 styluses were not doing it. You think both tonearms suddenly became bad?

That doesn't prove that the suspension was "soft". The only way to know that is to test the resonant frequency of the tonearm/cart combo with software. Also, we are talking about the VM95ML stylus here.

Lots of variables here - bad pressings, possibly bad adjustment of the tonearm. They mentioned adjusting a screw where they didn't know the function of said screw. That could have jacked up the tonearm. We don't really know.

 

[CrSens]

That doesn't prove that the suspension was "soft". The only way to know that is to test the resonant frequency of the tonearm/cart combo with software. Also, we are talking about the VM95ML stylus here.

Lots of variables here - bad pressings, possibly bad adjustment of the tonearm. They mentioned adjusting a screw where they didn't know the function of said screw. That could have jacked up the tonearm. We don't really know.

Yes, the best way to fix this is to change turntables, or spend days messing with tonearm that was working until the stylus change. Way easier than exchanging the stylus.

 

[patient_ot]

Yes, the best way to fix this is to change turntables, or spend days messing with tonearm that was working until the stylus change. Way easier than exchanging the stylus.

It would have taken 2 minutes to check the resonant frequency, probably about 15 minutes total to test a cart or stylus (in several parameters) and know whether it is defective or not. If the stylus is good then something is wrong with the turntable or tonearm. Defects can and do happen but user error probably accounts for a significant number of cart/styli problems on sites like this. At least IME. Have a nice day.

 

[CrSens]

It would have taken 2 minutes to check the resonant frequency, probably about 15 minutes total to test a cart or stylus (in several parameters) and know whether it is defective or not. If the stylus is good then something is wrong with the turntable or tonearm. Defects can and do happen but user error probably accounts for a significant number of cart/styli problems on sites like this. At least IME. Have a nice day.

Maybe it would take 15 minutes to you or me, but not everyone is so equiped, or knows how to do it. The key here (for me) was that it is happening on two different turntables. If it was on only one, I would completely agree with your point.

 

[Fishead]

Lots of variables here - bad pressings, possibly bad adjustment of the tonearm. They mentioned adjusting a screw where they didn't know the function of said screw. That could have jacked up the tonearm. We don't really know.

Agreed, see below.....

The key here (for me) was that it is happening on two different turntables. If it was on only one, I would completely agree with your point.

Agreed, that's the most likely explanation indeed.....however.....

I also saw there was a second screw to the right of the height adjustment that appeared to be all the way out.

In any case, and regardless of what it was doing with which table, as an owner, to be a happy owner, I'd proffer you would be well-served to know all the adjustments that are possible with your table and how to make them effectively. I did a quick search and came up with your owner's manual.....looked at the diagrams and could not find any such screw that you mention. The online version of this diagram/s leaves much to be desired, not sure how your hard copy looks, better I would hope. In any case, here is what is said about VTA and adjustment, sans any pictures to help with identifying the components:

"Slacken the horizontal adjustment screws (two Allen screws located near the plinth on the back of the tonearm pillar) with the Allen Key provided."

You did not mention the kind of "screw" that you tightened, but if it WAS an Allen screw, and if you only used one screw to make VTA adjustments, then this is likely the other screw that holds the tonearm securely in the base. If this screw was loose to begin with, then the arm would not have been properly secured and could conceivably display unwanted behaviour of the kind you reference. Conversely, if you tightened only the one screw after re-setting VTA, you might have gotten lucky and got it in the exact place where it needed to be, even though only held in place by the one screw. Then, when you tightened the loose screw, this could have changed the geometry of the tonearm in an unfavorable way.

When tightening the tonearm in the base, at least on my Nottingham deck, it is necessary to first gently tighten one of the screws slightly, then move to the other screw and do the same, slightly, and then go back and forth until you have them both snug but not air-hammered in there. The reason is, and you can check this for yourself, if you tighten only one screw first, snugly, and then go back and tighten the other snugly whilst holding the tonearm with your free hand, you will probably be able to feel it move ever so slightly as you are doing this! So, the proper way to do it is as I mentioned. Think of tightening lug nuts on an automobile wheel.....in order not to warp the rotor, you have to be careful and know how to properly tighten the nuts.

If you are not talking about one of the Allen screws then all bets are off and it's something else.

Do you have a picture of this screw?

Can you perhaps provide a picture of the screw for us if NOT the Allen screws?

Good luck with this. It can be frustrating when you have an issue that seems to have little rhyme nor reason.....but there IS an explanation, just have to keep digging until you find it. You may already have identified it with having received a bad stylus......or the bad pressings, but it also might be that challenging pressings just reveal an underlying problem. As an aside, I think I'd be looking for better pressings of those records anyway though because no matter how perfect your setup, both arm and cartridge, there will be evidence on some level of that flaw and you heard it big-time when you did the needle drops. That's when I tend to hear things that I might not otherwise, maybe because we're listening with headphones (or at least I do when editing) and listening very carefully to get the best outcome when doing our recordings.

And finally, I guess we will only know if the first stylus was actually the problem if the new stylus doesn't exhibit the same problemmed behaviour. Returning it was probably not a bad move though. But do consider getting that tonearm properly set up as I'd suggest you will be far more pleased for having done so. Good luck, amigo!

 

[radiokom]

Vibrating tonearm is loose tonearm. So nothing of the above, tonearm is simply damaged.

 

[Fishead]

@radiokom, that is true, but there are other possibilities to consider, and I for one am not sure what the OP meant by "vibrating tonearm....." Without some videos, which might be impossible now that the stylus has been returned, to actually see what was meant by "vibrating," I am unclear. Now, if the new stylus causes the same behaviour, then perhaps some videos will be useful to assess more accurately what is actually happening. As far as I can tell, this is a 4-point gimbal bearing assembly tonearm and I am not familiar with those but would imagine the bearing might have too much play, but that still doesn't explain why the other two tables showed the same behavior.....I'm really thinking it was that stylus along with the bad pressings but we'll have to see if the OP re-emerges here to let us know what happens.

 

[radiokom]

@radiokom, that is true, but there are other possibilities to consider, and I for one am not sure what the OP meant by "vibrating tonearm....." Without some videos, which might be impossible now that the stylus has been returned, to actually see what was meant by "vibrating," I am unclear. Now, if the new stylus causes the same behaviour, then perhaps some videos will be useful to assess more accurately what is actually happening. As far as I can tell, this is a 4-point gimbal bearing assembly tonearm and I am not familiar with those but would imagine the bearing might have too much play, but that still doesn't explain why the other two tables showed the same behavior.....I'm really thinking it was that stylus along with the bad pressings but we'll have to see if the OP re-emerges here to let us know what happens.

I believe OP is confused what is tonearm. He believe THIS is tonearm. But it is not.

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Vibrator...r_1_3?keywords=vibrator&qid=1675554596&sr=8-3

 

[cubdukat]

Here’s a pic from the back of the tonearm. The left screw is the one I’ve been using to raise and lower the entire assembly to adjust the height. The right one was the one that was out about 2-3 mm. I screwed it almost all the way back in. Like I said, the low end firmed up really well. Unfortunately the mmf-2.2 manual is ridiculously vague in a lot of areas.

I think what I’m going to do is get another ML stylus from a different vendor and try it again with that same “Goats Head Souo” pressing that caused all the problems. If it starts quaking again, l’ll adjust the right screw to see if that alleviates it.

 

[cubdukat]

The whole cart is made in Japan. I've never had a defective AT stylus but it is possible, and I've had a bunch of them. FWIW defects on AT styli usually have nothing to do with the suspension but a cantilever or diamond that is off-center. This can and does happen with any cartridge brand BTW, even some very expensive cartridges that cost thousands of dollars.

Note: if you want to try another stylus I would recommend buying from AT directly. If you experience any problems they can test the stylus for you and determine if it's the stylus or your equipment, records, or user error.

That stylus was actually the second wonky AT stylus I've gotten from Amazon, and my third overall. The third one was a VMN95e stylus that had a slightly bent cantilever. That seems to be the problem I'm seeing the most, as if they were mishandled during shipping.

I'm going to try ordering one from Music Direct; they're actually located in Chicago, so I can go and pick it up.

 

[cubdukat]

@radiokom, that is true, but there are other possibilities to consider, and I for one am not sure what the OP meant by "vibrating tonearm....." Without some videos, which might be impossible now that the stylus has been returned, to actually see what was meant by "vibrating," I am unclear. Now, if the new stylus causes the same behaviour, then perhaps some videos will be useful to assess more accurately what is actually happening. As far as I can tell, this is a 4-point gimbal bearing assembly tonearm and I am not familiar with those but would imagine the bearing might have too much play, but that still doesn't explain why the other two tables showed the same behavior.....I'm really thinking it was that stylus along with the bad pressings but we'll have to see if the OP re-emerges here to let us know what happens.

Basically, the tonearm literally quivers like it's in an earthquake, shaking back and forth rapidly to the point where the record skips. Unfortunately, I no longer have the offending stylus, so I am unable to show a result, and I was in the process of repacking it when I wrote the first post.

I'm scouring the various review sites about both titles, but most of the reviews have very good things to say about both pressings.

I'm positive that the stylus was the problem, because both the previous ML and SH styli are older, and the cantilever would certainly be more worn than a new one, and neither one of them has had this happen before, even after the adjustments. Conversely, the new ML from Amazon exhibited the quivering problem on both tonearms, one of which was considerably heavier than the mmf-2.2's is.

Then again, this could just be the mmf's way of saying it wants to retire

 

[flavio81]

Basically, the tonearm literally quivers like it's in an earthquake, shaking back and forth rapidly to the point where the record skips.

Is your turntable placed near the speakers or the woofers? Maybe the speakers and the turntable are on the same table?

Does this happens when you play at higher volumes?

Sometimes the low frequency sounds can make the tonearm+cartridge system resonate and shake. I've seen it with my own eyes...

 

[cubdukat]

• Is your turntable placed near the speakers or the woofers? Maybe the speakers and the turntable are on the same table?
  
  Does this happens when you play at higher volumes?
  
  Sometimes the low frequency sounds can make the tonearm+cartridge system resonate and shake. I've seen it with my own eyes...

  
  
  
• It's about four feet away from my speakers and subwoofer, but at the time this was happening, the volume on the receiver was muted. That was one of the first tests I did. Unfortunately, the tonearm's pretty microphonic; I've heard faint echoes of my TV (which plays out of the same receiver the PC I use to do my vinyl rips is connected to) in the space between songs.
• 
  Also, it was doing this on the lead-in groove on "Goats Head Soup," with absolutely no sound whatsoever.
• 
  The platter's somewhat resonant, and that may be an issue with the former stylus, because it did not have problems with the older ones. I recently picked up a Pro-Ject Cork It! turntable mat, and that seems to have solved a good deal of the resonance issue. I wonder how much that would have contributed to this, even though again, that pressing was well-behaved with the previous two styli, plus it's a 180g pressing, so it would take a lot for anything to get through.
  
  Eventually I hope to ditch the PC ripping operation for something like a Tascam SD card recorder. The entire setup isn't working as well as it used to thanks to some weird grounding issue with the PC that I can't seem to track down, and I no longer have the patience to fight with it.
  
  I really think that although the ringy platter might have contributed slightly, it was probably a bad stylus.