Vintage receiver upgrade advice?

Neon.Dove

Neon.Dove

New Member
Hey there AK,

Long time reader, but haven't posted much at all. I reach out to you now in search of input for an upcoming purchase...

I am looking to buy a 'better' vintage receiver, it's really high time I upgraded from my entry level Pioneer. I live in Brooklyn and my local audio store sells refurbished/repaired vintage receivers. While there are some options on craigslist and ebay, I really don't have the know how (or much of the time to fix myself) to risk buying a vintage receiver that might need a lot of work. Even if they are going for around $200, I assume repairs could get potentially really expensive. So was strongly considering purchasing from the store for piece of mind (and one year warranty), but this also brings the price tag up to $500 plus. I've been saving up, so I'm ok with the cost as long as I'm getting something that will last me a good many years.

Since I'd be dropping so much bank on this thing, I want to make sure I'm making the right decision and wanted to hear y'alls opinion on these 4 receivers they are currently selling at the shop, and how they might match up with my equipment. Through this receiver I would play mostly vinyl on a ProJect Debut iii with an Ortofon 2M Blue cartridge, as well as FM radio and my television/movie streaming. My speakers are two KLH Model 5 [Impeadance 8 ohms, RMS 75 watts,90WATTS Peak, 86DB.@1 watt].

Here are the 4 receiver options on the table. Any of them stand out as the best options for my speakers and turntable? Or just as the standalone best option?

Receivers (in order of cost):
Panasonic SU-3100b 40 watts/ch
Akai AA 5000s 35 watts/ch
Yamaha CA 610 II . 50 watts/ch
Sansui AU-999 70 watts/ch (this one is significantly more $$ than the other options, but is it that much more of a step up? Worth it?)

I did spend a couple hours in the shop the other day listening to these receivers through their speakers, though the shop is a much larger room than my home, with higher ceilings. For what that's worth I was bouncing between the Panasonic and the Yamaha; I was digging the Akai until I heard some Jazz through it, which sounded a muffled. I didn't spend much time listening to the Sansui as I was scared by price, but if it's that much better than the others I would consider it.

Or am I better off buying a new tube amp? or just continue searching for something else?

Any thoughts would be much appreciated! If you need any further info that I left out, I'm happy to answer.

Thank you so much for the help!

Cheers
 
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$500 for any one of those is insane unless you've got some kind of sentimental attachment--ie., you bought it in college and you'd like to bring it back to life. $500 for a refurbished 80--150 watt (or more) receiver from the TOP end of the line may be a reasonable investment depending on the adequacy of the refurb work. A reasonable warranty is no substitute for quality workmanship and quality parts.

Your speakers are 8-ohm nominal impedance. A warranty is important to you.

Buy a brand-new Yamaha integrated amplifier and find a tuner. (Yamaha may or may not have a suitable receiver which eliminates the need for a tuner.) I have some trouble finding the utility of a tuner in a Clear Channel world. Radio sucks. I'd go for the integrated amp and NO tuner. But that's me.

"I" would--and have--bought used receivers and simply accepted the risk that the thing may die. Can you solder? Are you willing to stuff in some power supply caps after hunting down a factory service manual?

Holy crap, I've got a 35-watt JVC that I paid $2 plus $10 shipping (ten years ago. I'd be expecting ~$50 today, not $12.) that's been doing yeoman duty in my garage driving 8-ohm nominal speakers. When I got it, I took the top off, blew the dust out with compressed air, and cleaned the clear plastic faceplate. It still rocks, and every capacitor inside is a dozen years past their expiration date. "I" would be looking at yard sales and pawn shops...but that's me.
 
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+1 on the Sansui, it's a little overpriced, but a really great amp. The receivers are way overpriced. I've owned tons of vintage receivers and amps over the years. The Pioneers, Marantz, Kenwoods, Carvers, Technics, Yamahas, Sonys, Kyoceras, Nikkos, Onkyos, etc are all gone. The ones I won't ever sell are my Zenith 5G29 tube amp and Sansui 881 and 6060. I'd take your KLHs to the shop and listen through them. The AU999 should sound real nice through the Model 5s. I run my 6060 through a pair of KLH Model 6s and it sounds great.
 
There are several factors to consider when buying a new piece of equipment, including cost, sound quality, dependability, and looks/cool factor.

The vintage market for audio has really changed in the 10 years that I've been messing around with buying and selling gear (as opposed to the 10 years before that during which I had mid-'90s Sony components and didn't think about gear at all). The big change is cost: vintage gear is way more expensive than it used to be. It's also 10 years older. This means that vintage is no longer a reliable way to get decent sound on the cheap.I mean, you still can, but it's not as easy.

Having started with a Kenwood KR-7600, and then moving through (in various systems) a Yamaha CR-650, a Pioneer SA-6800, a Mitsubishi of some sort, and a Sansui AU-7500, I lucked into three components for $120: a Yamaha C-45 preamp and Kenwood M2A and Arcam SA100 power amps that I would swap out for each other every few months. I had lost the '70s cool factor, but the sound was much better.

Then last year I was given my first truly high-end piece of gear, an Oppo BDP-83SE, and decided that I needed to upgrade other components. I paid $600 for a 12-year-old Bel Canto eVo2i gen ii, and even through my 35-year-old Boston Acoustic speakers, the difference was remarkable. My wife commented on it unprompted. This thing had a street price of over $3,000 a dozen years ago and I got it for the price that some vintage amps, refurbished or not, are going for now.

In my opinion, in the current market, vintage amps are generally compromised in the cost, sound quality, and dependability areas. Newer (but still used) gear is generally a much better deal.
 
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Alas, I have to agree with the last post. Vintage has gotten more expensive, sometimes by a lot, and it's just getting older. There aren't many people who can do an adequate job of working on it, plus it has to be a labor of love. At the current rates a full time shop has to charge, a full rebuild makes little sense.
 
I'd agree with the first reply. No way in the world would I spend $500+ on any of those receivers. Unless you have to have the silver face you'd be much better off looking at the latest Yamaha and Onkyo receivers/amps on Crutchfield. I don't know about the Onkyos but the Yamahas do come in Silver for some of the models as well.
 
I'd personally get a new Yamaha integrated as well.

It's just too risky to pay big bucks for a vintage piece and restored can mean too many different things to really give you piece of mind.
 
I prefer the Sansui over the others. Here is a different approach. How about looking at a used, original receiver under $200, spend the rest on servicing it? Possibly a Sherwood S7210 or Sansui 771? Right now on the Bay is a Sherwood S7900a for $280 shipped. That would sound awesome with the KLH 5's.
 
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Stay with mid priced vintage if you want vintage. There are tons of cool units on eBay and other sites that have been worked on etc. Make sure you buy from a seller that takes returns etc. Dont let people scare you out of what you want.
 
Thank you all SO much for the feedback. Well the vintage receiver seems like it's just not worth all the cash and perhaps not my best option. I don't think you all want to know how much they're asking for the refurbed Sansui, let's just say it's a good bit more that $500!!

I needed that slap in the face, I guess I was just drawn towards the style, romanticism and nostalgia factor of the vintage unit. But, as you pointed out MER71 and Schurkey, maybe if I want to go this route it'd be best to really buy a used unit and get my hands dirty fixing it up. It's a project I could get into, and I do know how to solder. I'd learn a heck of a lot in the process too and save a ton of cash. I've sighted some of the same Sansui units online for a ton less than my audio store too.

I'll hunt around for a vintage unit on the web and around town on craigslist and flea markets; but this will take some time to research the unit before buying and then who knows how much time to open it and mess around inside (it'd be the first unit I'd fix up, so I'm sure it would take a while. looks like there is a Sansui 771 on ebay for not so much right now too..Then maybe in the meantime I'll invest in a new unit. I'll check out the Yamahas on Crutchfield like y'all suggested. What are your thoughts on the Outlaw RR2150?
 
Neon.Dove said:
it'd be best to really buy a used unit and get my hands dirty fixing it up. It's a project I could get into, and I do know how to solder. I'd learn a heck of a lot in the process too and save a ton of cash. I've sighted some of the same Sansui units online for a ton less than my audio store too.

I'll hunt around for a vintage unit on the web and around town on craigslist and flea markets; but this will take some time to research the unit before buying and then who knows how much time to open it and mess around inside (it'd be the first unit I'd fix up, so I'm sure it would take a while... ...Then maybe in the meantime I'll invest in a new unit. I'll check out the Yamahas on Crutchfield like y'all suggested. What are your thoughts on the Outlaw RR2150?
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1. Buy a cheap unit first, replace the caps, verify the bias and the DC offset. Caps are inexpensive. If you screw up, you've destroyed an item you didn't care a lot about to begin with. If you're successful, take what you've learned and fix up the receiver of your dreams.

2. Far as I know--and I MAY BE WRONG--the Yamaha Aventage line is made in Malaysia, while the lower-priced items in the Outlaw line are Communist Chinese. That would be a great reason to avoid the Outlaw. You'll want to research Country of Origin (COO) for yourself.
 
Neon.Dove said:
Thank you all SO much for the feedback. Well the vintage receiver seems like it's just not worth all the cash and perhaps not my best option. I don't think you all want to know how much they're asking for the refurbed Sansui, let's just say it's a good bit more that $500!!

I needed that slap in the face, I guess I was just drawn towards the style, romanticism and nostalgia factor of the vintage unit. But, as you pointed out MER71 and Schurkey, maybe if I want to go this route it'd be best to really buy a used unit and get my hands dirty fixing it up. It's a project I could get into, and I do know how to solder. I'd learn a heck of a lot in the process too and save a ton of cash. I've sighted some of the same Sansui units online for a ton less than my audio store too.

I'll hunt around for a vintage unit on the web and around town on craigslist and flea markets; but this will take some time to research the unit before buying and then who knows how much time to open it and mess around inside (it'd be the first unit I'd fix up, so I'm sure it would take a while. looks like there is a Sansui 771 on ebay for not so much right now too..Then maybe in the meantime I'll invest in a new unit. I'll check out the Yamahas on Crutchfield like y'all suggested. What are your thoughts on the Outlaw RR2150?
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Why waste money on a new unit? Keep using what you have for now. Pick up a vintage piece and rehab it.
 
Schurkey said:
1. Buy a cheap unit first, replace the caps, verify the bias and the DC offset. Caps are inexpensive. If you screw up, you've destroyed an item you didn't care a lot about to begin with. If you're successful, take what you've learned and fix up the receiver of your dreams.

2. Far as I know--and I MAY BE WRONG--the Yamaha Aventage line is made in Malaysia, while the lower-priced items in the Outlaw line are Communist Chinese. That would be a great reason to avoid the Outlaw. You'll want to research Country of Origin (COO) for yourself.
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Sherwood receivers can easily be had for under $100. What kind of power are we thinking here?

Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.com/itm/302113183671


at this on eBay http://www.ebay.com/itm/262842080756
A 8900a for $225 shipped. Plenty of power and one of the last to made in Chicago.
 
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I would suggest going with Craigslist for the money. Here is a link to a Nakamichi in Fort Greene (area near the Brooklyn Bridge).

https://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/ele/6019777238.html

If still available it is a fair price for a fine receiver. Make sure that you can try it before you listen. Test all the inputs and all the speaker outputs. You will need to be able to play an LP to test the phono. If the seller can't demo the phono input consider hauling your turntable with you or try to negotiate a 24 hour return on it if the phono does not work or is distorted.

Some advice. I attended high school in Fort Green in the late 60's. If you consider this, and the area is still the same, go there during daylight hours.

Good Luck

Shelly_D
 
You did great by going and actually listening to the candidates. Awesome start.

Vintage gear is going to sound different than new gear. If you've saved up, then you likely have budget for more than one not-refurbed-yet unit... so you could learn more about the range of sound and character.

For instance, you could buy a warm-sounding HK or Kenwood cap-coupled unit for $120, hear what it sounds like in restored, then spend $40 on caps and transistors, do some work yourself, and HEAR the difference.

Still
Within your Akai budget you could also buy an unrestored Yamaha for $120-140, hear its more-neutral sound, restore it for another $50, HEAR that difference, and now have two units with very different character to help you decide which way you want to go next (warm or neutral).

And sell the one or two you like least to get a better unit, maybe even restore that one, too, to get more experience.

And STILL have room for a tube unit to hear the final kind or character of sound.
 
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Those vintage Sherwood receivers don't seem to get much love here, but IMO they're really solid units once you rebuild them. They didn't go for as long as the Japanese receivers did before needing service, so they may have a bad rep, but once you replace the caps and do the job right, they should be as good or better than anything else. There are/were some "Sherwood" 100 w/ch BPC (black plastic crap) units that were sold by RS and others and sound pretty awful. Avoid those, even if free. OTOH, there are some Onkyo units of similar specification (TX-8211 for example) and appearance that sound quite good, if you want something slightly newer. IMO, most mid power receivers are pretty easy to work on and learn on. I'd avoid Marantz and Sansui unless you can find a screaming good deal. They've gone up in price a lot, which is probably our fault for talking about them.
 
A few of my recent purchases that are keepers for me and a lot of sound for the money.
Yamaha CR-400 Reciever, only 16 watts by itself but it has pre outs so I added the M-35 amplifier and they sound great together.
Nice receiver/amp combo IMO.
I really love the real wood and craftsmanship of the CR.
The M-35 is also great condition and can be used in 2 or 4 channel.
Yamaha's just have the quiet, clean sound that I like.
Been cranking the Yammi's all afternoon, the receiver is not even warm, the amp is barely warm and a heck of a lot of very clean sound.

Paid $80 for each.

The Scott R 357 is really nice, paid $50 and giving that one to my daughter.
It works flawlessly but just needed a bit of glueing on one corner of the wood housing.

Looking at a Sansui TU-417 that I might get for $140 and that is a nice receiver.

Your location makes a difference of the deals that you can find.
I'm in the Chicago area and there's always a lot of gear for sale.
It does take some time to find good pieces for a good price.

These were Craigslist finds and the seller was very patient to let me check everything out which is important.

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I had a ten year love affair with vintage receivers.Vintage is cool if you can get it cheap.I personally don't think they are worth the money some of the big ones bring.I eventually moved on because I discovered how good early 2000s Yamahas sound.Their cheap, sound very good and have a remote.
 
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