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What are the best 10 turntables under $4000
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bjlefebvre
Super Member
Well Tempered are supposed to be at the top of the list for any turntable enthusiast. Unfortunately their WAF is 300 uglies per channel, or at least for the golf-ball versions.
VPI Classic 1 would be on the list. The footprint is a tad on the ginormous side, but they sound excellent. I've stopped thinking of upgrading as soon as I got mine.
I would posit that a souped-up Thorens -something from Vinyl Nirvana (no affiliation) - should also be on the list.
VPI Classic 1 would be on the list. The footprint is a tad on the ginormous side, but they sound excellent. I've stopped thinking of upgrading as soon as I got mine.
I would posit that a souped-up Thorens -something from Vinyl Nirvana (no affiliation) - should also be on the list.
bimasta
Addicted Member
I lust for the Anvil, a simple, massive, perfect design. But belt drive. I have very good DDs from Denon and Micro Seiki and I'm so happy with them, I won't spend another dollar, much less $4K. But I still lust for the Anvil...
https://www.anvilturntables.com
No frills, not even one. Only function. Not built for beauty, but to produce it.
https://www.anvilturntables.com
No frills, not even one. Only function. Not built for beauty, but to produce it.
Just looked at that Anvil. She's beastly simple. I like it, tho belt drives scare me. I have a very good ear, and most of the belt drives I've had/experienced, I heard pitch fluctuation. Then again, I'd think the Anvil has that worked out.
bimasta
Addicted Member
Well put James: Beastly simple. And it's String-drive, not Belt. It doesn't stretch-relax-stretch-relax like rubber belts, speeding and slowing the platter and adding micro-quavers to the music. Some don't hear it as "pitch fluctuation", even on wobbly 'sustained' piano chords — they hear it as 'expressiveness'. I think Micro Seiki pioneered string-drive with its final mindblowing, utterly gorgeous, and very expensive turntables. They went back to belt-(string)-drive for their swan song, after many TOTL DD's. A slender strand of silk driving a platter so massive you need friends to help you lift it. The only "wow and flutter" is what you say when you hear it, and your heart.
Mister Pig
Pigamus Maximus
Over the last five or seven years I have done a bit of turntable exploring. I have had large non suspended designs like the Teres, with the last one being a Galibier Serac. Of course that table was $3300 for just the base, with no arm, so its sort of hard to fit under this price cap. But I have had the Thorens TD 124 and the Garrard 401, which also bump up against the cap when you figure out all the restoration costs, and accessories needed to trim it out. Of course the arm becomes an issue, as these days its easy to drop a kilobuck or two into them, and this discussion does not say if an arm is included in this cost or not.
My pound for pound champion is still a Marc Morin modified AR XA, although it does create a challenge in terms of cartridge set up when using ones with line contact styli. Other great bang for the buck turntables include various belt drives, as their faults tend to be very benign when compared to direct drives that are built to a cost. So the AR, Systemdeck, Ariston, Thorens, VPI 19 series, and Sonegraphe type tables would be my choice for the less expensive versions.
The last couple of years I have spent playing with direct drive tables offered as drive only units. I find that the SP 10 MK II and the Denon DP 75 are excellent tables that are capable of high performance sound quality if used with quality plinths, just like the top tier idler drive tables are. The price on the SP 10 MK II continues to climb, and its getting harder to find clean versions of it. While the DP 75 is still relatively affordable, and one of the better buys on the used market now. Sound wise I don't think there is any significant difference between the two tables, as they contribute very little to the overall sound of an analog rig, and the tone arm and cartridge are far more influential. I like the aesthetics, functionality, and build quality of the SP 10 MK II over the DP 75, so its my choice. However the DP 75 offers the best value in the current market. With a 4K budget, there is a lot of money left to pay for a high quality custom built plinth from someone like Larry Spence, and a great arm like an Audiomods, SME M2-9, and the Wand. If you go to the used market a whole bunch of choices, which might even include a Graham, SME IV, or a Technics EPA100.
Regards
Mister Pig
My pound for pound champion is still a Marc Morin modified AR XA, although it does create a challenge in terms of cartridge set up when using ones with line contact styli. Other great bang for the buck turntables include various belt drives, as their faults tend to be very benign when compared to direct drives that are built to a cost. So the AR, Systemdeck, Ariston, Thorens, VPI 19 series, and Sonegraphe type tables would be my choice for the less expensive versions.
The last couple of years I have spent playing with direct drive tables offered as drive only units. I find that the SP 10 MK II and the Denon DP 75 are excellent tables that are capable of high performance sound quality if used with quality plinths, just like the top tier idler drive tables are. The price on the SP 10 MK II continues to climb, and its getting harder to find clean versions of it. While the DP 75 is still relatively affordable, and one of the better buys on the used market now. Sound wise I don't think there is any significant difference between the two tables, as they contribute very little to the overall sound of an analog rig, and the tone arm and cartridge are far more influential. I like the aesthetics, functionality, and build quality of the SP 10 MK II over the DP 75, so its my choice. However the DP 75 offers the best value in the current market. With a 4K budget, there is a lot of money left to pay for a high quality custom built plinth from someone like Larry Spence, and a great arm like an Audiomods, SME M2-9, and the Wand. If you go to the used market a whole bunch of choices, which might even include a Graham, SME IV, or a Technics EPA100.
Regards
Mister Pig
Thank you for explaining the string drive. Wasn't aware of that, and did wonder how the belt was so very thin.
As for someone calling that "expressiveness" I would have to say it would drive me crazy. My records I own that are off-center, even a little, destroy the listening experience for me.
Can't help it, perfect pitch can be a pita.
bimasta
Addicted Member
Musicians call it rubato — "expressive freedom by a slight speeding up and then slowing down of the tempo of a piece at the discretion of the musician."
Not at the discretion of the turntable.
Ask 10 people get 10 different answers. It is similar to asking which beer is the best. Well we all taste different than the other person and in audio we all hear different than the other person. You will get no consensus on this topic.
bjlefebvre
Super Member
That Anvil looks sweet. I had seriously thought of trying it out. Unfortunately had already plunked down for the VPI before I learned of its existence. May try it out down the line, but right now happy enough with the Classic that trying a new turntable isn't on the priority list.
I will agree there really is no best as soon as you invite more than one person to weigh in.
Then the fact a large vote will also come down to mass production as more people will have used and or own them.
Then the fact some are more flash than performance and flash cost money.
Then the fact some just cost more without flash or performance (insert LP12 here)
I like tables that have stood the test of time that gave you a lot of performance for your money as well as just a bit of mechanical flash. Common tables that used to be pitted against each other in the same price point back in the day, and I think fit the price point of this thread today. Then the fact almost all are in current production still, at least in one form or another.
Oracle Delphi
Mitchell Gyro Deck
VPI HW 19
SOTA Star Sapphire
Linn LP12
The only table I would not want out of the above is the Linn and it's just posted because it's made today and it's in the price point. When pitted against the other tables it didn't have the performance at the price they charged, and consistently didn't come out on top.
All the others I would love to have and or do have or had.
My choice out of all as my sig states is the SOTA Star Sapphire as it consistently beat out all the others back in the day. If the still did honest in depth testing and reviews it still would today, as you get a lot of bang in performance with it.
Then the fact a large vote will also come down to mass production as more people will have used and or own them.
Then the fact some are more flash than performance and flash cost money.
Then the fact some just cost more without flash or performance (insert LP12 here)
I like tables that have stood the test of time that gave you a lot of performance for your money as well as just a bit of mechanical flash. Common tables that used to be pitted against each other in the same price point back in the day, and I think fit the price point of this thread today. Then the fact almost all are in current production still, at least in one form or another.
Oracle Delphi
Mitchell Gyro Deck
VPI HW 19
SOTA Star Sapphire
Linn LP12
The only table I would not want out of the above is the Linn and it's just posted because it's made today and it's in the price point. When pitted against the other tables it didn't have the performance at the price they charged, and consistently didn't come out on top.
All the others I would love to have and or do have or had.
My choice out of all as my sig states is the SOTA Star Sapphire as it consistently beat out all the others back in the day. If the still did honest in depth testing and reviews it still would today, as you get a lot of bang in performance with it.
Perhaps I should have asked for the best turntables in plural as obviously there are many. Lots of different opinions are a good thing.
I've been down the vintage rabbit hole for many years and I keep hitting problems. My Lenco is once again in pieces - it's been more of a long term project than anything else. My Denon DP51 just died on me... I've got a DUAL 1219 on its way to get fixed and a Technics 1200 Mk2 that still runs like a champ. But I'm starting to think maybe it's time to sell everything and pony up more money and get a final turntable.
I'm not really a fan of belt drive as like James I do sometimes hear that pitch variation. I'm more of an idler or DD enthusiast. If nothing else.. it's fun to read people's opinions on turntables.
I've been down the vintage rabbit hole for many years and I keep hitting problems. My Lenco is once again in pieces - it's been more of a long term project than anything else. My Denon DP51 just died on me... I've got a DUAL 1219 on its way to get fixed and a Technics 1200 Mk2 that still runs like a champ. But I'm starting to think maybe it's time to sell everything and pony up more money and get a final turntable.
I'm not really a fan of belt drive as like James I do sometimes hear that pitch variation. I'm more of an idler or DD enthusiast. If nothing else.. it's fun to read people's opinions on turntables.
Well have you or Tim owned a $4000 belt drive table? I don't think Tim has and looking at your list of tables most likely no for you also. I'd give you one of my tables if you could hear a pitch change on them. The only time I ever have was when I got one that had a very old belt and it hadn't been used in years.
All table drive systems have some fault people will drag in to a conversation when they might be set in their ways that are clearly bias. I got a SL1200 MK II in mint shape and it's junk IMHO to what some might call inferior drive system.
If you want your last table, it would be best to have a open mind and get rid of the consumer sales pitch hype in your head. Sometimes it's more like propaganda than reality.
im a semi auto guy and the best semi ive found is the Technics SL 1700 mk2 but my Thorens TD 147 might have it beat in the looks department
91r100gs
Lunatic Member
Acquired my VPI Traveler used on a "The wife said you better sell that, beings you bought a BETTER TT sale" While many folks hate them because a few got out with tonearm gimbal pins that were a bit too short, mine has been flawless since late 2012. It has a heavy enough platter, a heavy enough plinth, and rock steady speed thanks to plain simple A/C motor. The bundle I saved on a "Inferior TT" has allowed me to purchase a top flight cartridge and really enjoy the music. After all the music starts in the groove. IMHO YMMV
YOMV Everyone has one
YOMV Everyone has one
Mister Pig
Pigamus Maximus
If you are going to invest money in this, my recommendation would be to pick up one of the studio grade DD tables. They are going to have a lower noise floor than an idler, unless you toss crazy money at one, and even then I have my doubts you get to the same low noise floor. Send it off to a great tech like Peter Noerbeck, Hans, or someone you trust, and get it serviced to where it is a known entity and able to give you plenty of years of service. Have someone like Larry Spence build you a multi density plinth, he did mine on a recipe I modeled on the Natais one for a Lenco. Or maybe someone like Jim Campbell can cut you one from slate or soap stone. Just get a quality plinth, and make sure you get enough mass.
Add a great manual arm and you are set. You get a table that is good for years of service, performs at a high level, and has a somewhat reasonable price tag compared to what the current generation of DD tables sell for.
Of course this is just the opinion of a simple country pig. We like good food, warm sun, and soft hay. If you want a different opinion go ask the cows, for they are wise. Do not talk to the chickens because fowl are known liars, and they cheat at cards.
Regards
Mister Pig
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