What are the fullest (FR and DR) sounding speakers at low volumes?

eddantes

eddantes

Drone, Sector 7-G
Kind of an open ended question I suppose, but the gist is this: I listen 90% of the time at low volumes and I'd like to put together a system that gives me the most frequency range and dynamic range at low levels. I am happy to do this at the expense of coloration/neutrality and everything else except detail.

At them moment I have a Magnavox SE EL84 tube amp driving Heathkit AS-173 coaxials in big cabs - and yes, I feel I've come closer to the ideal I'm looking for than ever before. But, this just happened accidentally - I wanted to try a tube amp and the Maggie console pull was cheap and the speakers I bought because the cabs are fantastic furniture! But now - I'm thinking of mindfully trying to get to this low-volume/full sound ideal.

What are your thoughts? What should I be looking for?
 
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How low spl is low? To me, your question is confusing because at low level, to get the "fullest" sound, some compression of dynamic range will likely help provide the sound you seek. Wide dynamic range at low volume tends to leave quieter passages below the ambient noise level of the room, ie, buried under the noise floor - turning up the volume to compensate for this may well result in a louder-than-desired setting during crescendos. Of course, many recordings don't exhibit a great deal of dynamic range, anyway - which helps in low-level scenarios - and if some compression is desirable that may best be addressed with processing or by source selection.

Frequency response can obviously be addressed with tone controls of whatever type you might prefer for low-volume listening.

So for low-level listening, I'd basically look for speakers with a flat frequency response and good dynamics - the same attributes as for a louder playback level, and ensure that I obtain components with control features which allow maximizing low-volume playback. That said, I would tend to suggest a powered subwoofer - preferably remotely adjustable via pre-amp - as an aid for what you seek.
 
IMO&E speakers that work very well at low volumes are electrostats and large horn or horn-direct radiator hybrid types. (By hybrids I mean speakers using horn treble with large direct radiating woofers; Altec 19s, Klipsch Cornwalls and such.) I think such speakers have extreme low level clarity and ability to hear into the music without the need to kick up the volume. And they have "jump" factor at low volumes.

This is my opinion and not intended as objective fact.
 
I have found Quads (esl57s, even more so than esl63s) are really good at low level reproduction. Also, Revox Agora Bs were rightly advertized as "Quiet Speakers", I have a pair, and they are very good at low spls too, but they're like hen's teeth.
 
musichal said:
How low spl is low?
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I'd say 60-70 with peaks into the 80s is about as loud as I ever go.

Interesting that electrostatics are brought up, I have Magnepans and though they are not electrostatics I think I know what is meant. I've always wanted 57s... Hmmm....
 
eddantes said:
I'm thinking of mindfully trying to get to this low-volume/full sound ideal.

What are your thoughts? What should I be looking for?
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Yep. You arrived the the same conclusion I did some time ago. Most of my music listening is at extremely low volume. I find that the later at night it gets the lower volume I can take it and still get the full effect with all the detail. My speakers are modded to give a warm, full sound with a wide soundstage and they are further enhanced with a powered subwoofer. The sub negates the need for a loudness contour.
 
Mr. Brennan's advice is, as usual, excellent.
My ESL-57s are excellent at low volumes, as are my Duplexes.
No loudness control needed (Fletcher-Munson characteristics notwithstanding).

As a corollary: it is a revelation to listen to a recorded fadeout on a single-ended vacuum tube amp and high-sensitivity speakers, relative to the normal presentation one might expect if one is used to listening to a PP Class AB solid state amp and typical loudspeakers mated with same.

Stop by some time & I'd be happy to demonstrate.
 
Tom Brennan said:
IMO&E speakers that work very well at low volumes are electrostats and large horn or horn-direct radiator hybrid types. (By hybrids I mean speakers using horn treble with large direct radiating woofers; Altec 19s, Klipsch Cornwalls and such.) I think such speakers have extreme low level clarity and ability to hear into the music without the need to kick up the volume. And they have "jump" factor at low volumes.

This is my opinion and not intended as objective fact.
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I built a pair of econowaves and I think they're pretty full sounding at very low volumes.

eddantes - You mentioned Magnepan - I've had them, and IMO I'd say they are the opposite of what you described you're looking for.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=5645966&postcount=14344
 
JohnVF said:
Quad ESLs.
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That seems to be the consensus... My kind of speaker.

I have to add my W90's to that list. They're great at low volumes, plus they still sound big. The dual woofs, mids and tweets really help with that. And they do get pretty-low (two 12.5" woofers per cab, each woofer in it's own isolated enclosure that's divided/dampened by a sand-filled middle section). Amazing with jazz and classical, but also amazing with classic rock/pop ('50's, '60's, '70's, and even '80's). Even old school rap sounds awesome with these speakers, and '60's/'70's/'80's funk and soul/R&B stuff sounds unbelievable (James Brown is off the friggin' chain... So-good it should be illegal). Plus, speaker-positioning is a snap. You DO NOT need a big room for them. I spent 2 and a half weeks listening to them from 5-6 feet away, and there wasn't a single hint of listening fatigue. I basically played them all day long, every day. Wickedly-addictive.

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sebrof said:
You mentioned Magnepan - I've had them, and IMO I'd say they are the opposite of what you described you're looking for
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Well I'm listening to 2.5Rs as I'm typing this. Powered by a VTAed ST70 with volume set to where I'm probably hitting 10-15watts peak. My couch is about 6 feet away in a mid sized room and I feel I am getting all the detail I can get. SPL is averaging 65-75. Now that isn't really low volume but it isn't loud either. My other set up is even better at low volume resolution.

But it certainly appears that ESL 57s is the thing. Do you fellas use a sub with them? Not that I listen to bass rich music, but still the point of the exercise is a full FR.
 
Two friends of mine use Single Ended Maggie console rebuilds and they both use the 8" Fostex FF225, not even the expensive Fostex and not even in a folded horn, but the bass reflex cab that Fostex gives the measurements for.
http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-8-fullrange/fostex-ff225wk-8-full-range/

Both systems sound amazing at low volumes. Super detail. Very lush and very wide. We are constantly shocked. And there is plenty of bass and the slight roll off at the top is barely noticeable. We have done listening tests with a super tweeter on top of them and sometimes we hear a difference and sometimes not, depends on the content. But when there is no super tweeter or sub, we still don't mind. They still sound phenomenal.

Plus, the idea of pushing Electrostats with 7 watts seems improbable; even at low levels. But I can't speak for the Quad 57's, only the larger ones like Acoustat and Martin Logan.
 
notben said:
Plus, the idea of pushing Electrostats with 7 watts seems improbable; even at low levels. But I can't speak for the Quad 57's, only the larger ones like Acoustat and Martin Logan.
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I tried my little 10 wpc Jolida on my Martin Logan Vistas and it worked fine at low and medium levels, actually given the way I listen now I've considered running the MLs in the front room with that amp and bringing the big 50 wpc Jolida into the den to use on my little Monitor Audios, I need the extra inputs.
 
My audio nirvana super 15 fullrange drivers in the 5.6 cabs sound very full and open at low listening levels.Most of my listening is at low volumes as well and the A/N speakers with my jolida 102b driving them makes for a sweet combination for sure.
 
I've looked at AN drivers, but looking at the charts those curves are so bumpy that it kinda scares me away. I suppose those charts lie a bit because they're measured free air, but still...
 
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