What do you think of this as a 10X stylus loupe?

birddog

Addicted Member
Came across this while looking for the best bang for the buck for a tool to examine stylus.

Bausch & Lomb Illuminated Coddington. A Coddington lens is a single thick lens, rather than the usual 'Triplet' lenses found in good loupes. Takes pen light (AA?) batteries to power a bulb that is inserted in the groove of the lens to illuminate the object (stylus) you are examining.

Seems like a hell of good tool for examining your stylus, can be had for just under $30 if you search around online.... Think it would be better than the old stand-by, the hand held 10X jewelers loupe? :scratch2:h
 

Attachments

  • 813434illuminatedCoddington10xB.jpg
    813434illuminatedCoddington10xB.jpg
    11 KB · Views: 76
Register to hide this ad
Looks good. Just remember that a single magnifying lens has a really short depth of field (depth of focus) and very concentrated central foci compared to a multiple lens arrangement, but that shouldn't matter as much if you only intend to use it to view sytli. The light is a nice touch.
 
That would be a great tool to look at everything about a stylus except wear. To see wear, you need a side-lighted about 200x scope. but if you want to see how dirty it is, if it is bent, if the cantilever is dented or whatever that tool will do the job.

To see the wear dots on the very tip of the stylus requires special microscope setups and these wear dots are just that dots in the microscope.

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=87723 talks a lot about the method to view stylus wear.
 
Hmmm, I had seen 10X mentioned the most, so that's what I was searching for. Guess it's back to Google and see what else I can find that would do the job, at a budget price.
 
Sorry, You Must Do Much Better

HI old,
How are you doing? Good I hope.

I'm sorry to inform you that your assumption that your rock magnifier will work is totally wrong for a lot of reasons. I covered this thoroughly in the thread which is linked above by Blue Shadow. Here it is again:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=87723

I'm not going to repeat what is in that thread but, trust me; your idea simply will not work. Check out the thread.

A few folks in that thread had intensions to to modify lab scopes for stylus use, notably hakaplan. I don't know if they were successful. I suspect they found that the problem is difficult. But, I think it is possible.

In fact, hakaplan put a burr under my saddle and I am in the process of doing what he suggested. Understand, I don't need another stylus microscope. But there was so much interest that I thought I might be able to use my experience and offer a solution to others that is practical and not too expensive. I'm using an Olympus stereo lab scope with a four objective turret which is total overkill. But it has a good micrometer adjustable stage and the ability to accept optional optics. Much less capable and cheaper mono scopes, with a good adjustable stage, should be useful for the task.

The Shure Stylus Microscope seems to be made of unobtanium. I have had a search on ebay going for over a year and not one has popped up. Time for another solution.

If I'm successful, I will post about it. I'll know pretty soon. The optics are on order. I still have to find a good light source.

Here is a picture of the Shure model I have, the SEK-2.

Sparky
 

Attachments

  • Shure SEK-2 Microscope.jpg
    Shure SEK-2 Microscope.jpg
    111.8 KB · Views: 46
Just a idea here, but I wonder if the folks at Grado or another one of the stylus manufacturers have found something to use in this realm. It strikes me that making sure the styli are properly ground requires similar optical capability. I wonder if they have an off-the-shelf microscope they use or some modified version of such? Or maybe the guys at Soundsmith? Of course, they may be using something vastly more expensive but it'd still be interesting to see what they are using and how it works.

Richard
 
While searching a little further today, I found a USB powered scope that does 200X, and you use your monitor for viewing. Can't post a D&S item here, but if you search the auction site for 'USB 200X microscope' you will find them. They have a couple of different ones, and have stands for them. They have various #'s of LED's for lighting. Prices are between $50/$150 depending on what/where you get them from.

No idea of the quality of the image you will get, but sounds like a budget alternative...
 
HI,
Maybe, but I doubt it. In truth they are a POS. You are making the same mistake made by many others. You don't have any idea about the difficulty of the problem and what it takes to solve it.

You are not the first one to go down that path. To my knowledge, no one has come up with a workable solution. Try it. Maybe you will. But I am very sceptical. IOW, I think it is a bad idea.

Sparky
 
HI old,
Thanks for the good words. Go ahead and do your thing. I would hate to upset your trip with knowledge.

Sparky
 
Let's keep this civil, folks!

Karma, I am aware that I could do much better than any of the items I have suggested. What I was looking for was opinions on a budget friendly (Well, really low budget) alternative to the proper, albeit prohibitively expensive tool for the job.

I do appreciate your knowledge and input on the subject, and if you do have a very affordable option for a lens/scope that would even marginally allow me to examine a stylus beyond what a basic jewelers loupe is capable of, I would like to hear what you think about it.
 
There really is not shortage of cheap 'pocket' microscopes out there. Some can be had for as low as $5.

Here is the 30x illuminated microscope that I have ($24.95 but can be found for much less) -

http://www.microscopestore.com/items.aspx?id=100253~

Alternately, for roughly the same thing ($9.69) -

http://www.christianbook.com/Christ..._mmc=CBDfeeds-_-froogle-_-gifts-_-822301#curr

There is also a 100x version of it ($39.95 but less if you shop around) -

http://www.microscopestore.com/items.aspx?id=100254~

Here is a nifty 60 to 100X ($17.95) hand held scope that would easily fit in your coat pocket -

http://www.scopecity.com/detail.cfm?ProductID=5798

These are all good for general inspection of record grooves and Stylus, but they are not quite powerful enough to accurately check stylus wear.

For a super video/computer 300x scope, check this out ($99.95) -

http://www.scopecity.com/detail.cfm?ProductID=4957

Again, I have one of the 30x shown at the top, bought it at Radio Shack years ago. I have a clear plastic base that is soft enough that I can set it right on top of a record to inspect the grooves without worrying about scratching.

It takes a steady hand to view a stylus though. Any movement throws it out of focus. It I really wanted steady viewing, I would build a base/platform/stand I could set it on and view the stylus better. Still it works.

Here is probably the best deal of all, from Amazon -

30x pocket microscope + 30x jewler's folding loop + 60x to 100x pocket microscope = $24.98 for all three.

Google is your friend.

Steve/bluewizard
 
Last edited:
At my previous work, some years ago, we had several industrial microscopes with the ability of different magnifyings. At the time I was reasonably accommodated using these for different types of inspections. Naturally I tried to look at the stylus´ I had for wear. This turned out to be so difficult, for me, so I finally found it to be useless. I couldn´t get any useable correlation between how I thought the stylus looked and how it sounded. It is of course so that it is possible and others can, but in my experience it is a difficult task.
/gusten
 
HI,
To birddog and blue wizard and anyone else who is interested.

This whole subject depends on the results you are after. But first, please read the old thread at the following link:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=87723

The subject was explored pretty thoroughly by me with many other chipping in with their own ideas.

In order to clear up some confusion I will restate the goal. It is to accurately determine stylus wear by observing the tiny facets that develop on a worn stylus. I'm not concerned with general stylus examination for dirt, debris and dust bunnies. A hand held magnifier will get that job done. But a real microscope is needed for wear determination. Real microscopes are the subject of this discussion.

I'm going to lay down some guidelines to get you thinking in the right direction:

1. Maximum Magnification: Is of prime importance. 100X can work but only barely. 200X is ideal. Anything less than 100X will not show the wear facets. They are tiny. 200X defines most of the other aspects of the scope design because that, my friends, is pretty high magnification under which everything else becomes critical.

2. Variable magnification: At 200X, placing the stylus tip in the field of view is very difficult. Thus, the Shure scope has a zoom eyepiece that zooms from 100X to 200X overall. Use 100X for tip placement and 200X for examination. Even at 100X, placement is not so easy. I would prefer 50X.

3. Micrometer stage adjustments: Rather than moving the cartridge or stylus around by hand trying to get it in the field of view, the stage x/y axis adjustments are used. They provide very fine control of placement. Doing it by hand is crude and frustrating even at 100X. At 200X it is nearly impossible. There is a reason why all but the least expensive microscopes have micrometer stages. I consider this to be an essential feature for any microscope beyond a toy.

4. Other Mechanical Features: Smooth controls are important and nice to work with. Focus and stage adjusments, in particular, must be smooth. Mechanical stability is important. Any decent microscope has adequate stability and weight.

5. Lighting: This is very important and is one of the unique features of the Shure scope. The tip must be lighted from above and to each side. Most microscopes illuminate from the bottom. The lighting angles must be right to allow the wear facets to reflect light into the scope objective lens. The facets act as tiny mirrors. Without the proper lighting, the facets become invisible.

6. Optics: Must be reasonable for sharp images but don't have to be great. Color fringing should be minimal. But most important is the choice of magnifications for the objective lens and the eyepiece. The Shure uses a 10X objective lens and a 10X to 20X zoom eyepiece. These were carefully chosen with the 10X objective being the most important factor. There are a number of combinations that could result in the overall magnification of 200X. The 10X objective gives the best working distance and the deepest depth of field of any common objective and, when used with a 20X eyepiece, gives 200X overall magnification. Unfortunately for someone trying to design a stylus microscope, like me, a ZOOM 20X eyepiece is impossible to find. I’m doing it a different, but inferior, way.

I define working distance as the distance from the plane of focus (the stylus tip) to the surface of the objective lens. Why is this important? Well, you need room to work. The stylus is being moved around quite a bit and you need adequate space to keep the stylus from accidentally contacting the lens and breaking off. I did this when I was playing around with a 40X objective (very small working distance) and a 10X eyepiece. Fortunately, I was using an old, worn out Shure stylus.

Depth of field is also important. The 10X objective gives adequate DOF to see the entire wear pattern. 20X is too shallow to work with. 40X is impossible.

All in all, I think Shure chose the best combination of lenses.

6. Anything hand held is useless. Just try to use a 100X (or even 20X) magnifier hand held and you will see what I mean. But they are good for dust bunnies.

Sparky
 
Last edited:
Me, I think I would just walk into my nearby high school biology lab with a request to use their microscope for a few minutes. I think the teacher and the kids might get a kick out of looking at something other than cell samples.
 
HI,
To birddog and blue wizard and anyone else who is interested.

This whole subject depends on the results you are after. ...

In order to clear up some confusion I will restate the goal. It is to accurately determine stylus wear by observing the tiny facets that develop on a worn stylus. ...

First and foremost, I agree with everything you said, except the line above.

That may be your goal, but stated subject and the request of the original poster regarded a 10x illuminated Bausch & Lomb Illuminated Coddington Loupe.

While I recommended several handy lower powered microscopes, which indeed are handy to have and dirt cheap to buy; I concluded by saying -

"These are all good for general inspection of record grooves and Stylus, but they are not quite powerful enough to accurately check stylus wear".

Then followed up with a link to a reasonably priced 300x digital microscope, which certainly would work for stylus wear inspection.

Now, all that said, I agree completely with all your itemized points. Inspecting minute stylus wear is difficult even with good equipment. Depth of field, quality optics, micro adjustable stage, lighting, etc..., are all critically important when trying to view stylus wear.

Indeed the thread in this link has a lot of great information and photos with many useful links -

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=103733

Again, couldn't agree more, except for the statement regarding the central subject. Though I do agree the subject, as is typical, is morphing in the direction you stated.

For some spectacular stylus photos and some great links, check out -

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=138956

Steve/bluewizard
 
Last edited:
HI Blue,
You are certainly right about the original objective of this thread. But others, not just me, decided to offer the argument that a hand held magnifier was useless if stylus wear was the objective which, of course, I agree with. Once the conversation started in that direction then it was necessary to say why they are useless. That leads directly to the subject of stylus microscopes and effective inspection tools.

Personally, I feel that there is almost total confusion and ignorance on the subject of stylus wear and inspection. This needs to change. I want to change it. I offer no apology.

When I restated the goal, I meant MY goal for MY posts, which seems to be shared by others including you. Perhaps I could have made the point better but I think my agenda is obvious. I think you are being a bit nit picky. Don't you think the expansion of the discussion was on topic and relevant? I truly hope some folks learned something. That is why I beat my head against this brick wall. Why force me to justify myself when the point is obvious?

Sparky
 
No need for an apology, which you didn't offer, because...after all...you are indeed right. Can't argue with 'right'.

But you mentioned me specifically by name, and implied that my advice was wrong or misguided. Yet, I was simply giving general direction to useful tools, and added, as you noted, that for 'wear' inspection, the lower powered device wouldn't work. They are, however, handy, cheap, and useful.

Since, you mentioned me by name, I simply wanted to point out, that I was actually agreeing with you.

There seem to be several digital microscopes for under $100 that would get the job done nicely and for a very attractive price. The Intel QX5 200x can be had for under $80. I link to a Kronus I stumbled across on a quick Google search, that is 300x and cost $99.95.

I can't deny that there is an element of 'big boy toys' in the microscopes, but come on... how cool would it be to have one? One reason 'big boys' make 'big money' is so they can have cool 'big boy toys'.

I think the advice you gave was spot on, and very helpful. Generally helpful to those on a budget, and especially helpful to anyone looking for laboratory grade equipment.

Thanks.

Steve/bluewizard
 
Back
Top Bottom