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What sources do radio stations use?
- Thread starter jstang
- Start date
Having worked in radio a couple of years I can tell you that a lot of stations use compressed audio in a program called "Selector". They load tracks from CDs into the program. From there they can program entire shows to run automatically if they want. There's more to it than that, but I don't feel like typing all the particulars. A fair deal of stations that do not have many or any automated programming use CDs. Rarely does a station use vinyl and I know of none that use R2R. I don't know if any stations are using FLAC or other forms, but it would not surprise me if some were.
Most stations that still play vinyl now and again don't take care of their turntables that well and some not at all. They also do not take care of their vinyl library. I don't know why, I guess it's because nobody wants to or cares. Some claim they are playing vinyl live when in reality it's really a direct compressed digital recording from the vinyl. That's why you sometimes hear no difference or no detail.
If you had a decent TT at home with a decent, well maintained cart and stylus and you cleaned and cared for your vinyl records you would hear something wonderful and what you expected to hear from the radio station, but did not.
Then there is also the signal strength and clarity to consider as it is a huge factor as well.
Actually, Selector is a tool to control music scheduling and has nothing what so ever to do with audio. It can be exporting a schedule into an automation or just be used to create a printed list, but it never touches, in anyway, the audio!
EV3
truevis
Well-Known Member
Nice -- trying it now via Winamp, which opens the downloaded file by default. Please share other streaming sources of that quality.
Your correct, my bad. The audio sits on the HDD (or make that, HDDs in a server) in whatever format it was loaded in. I think I got confused between two programs I used while in the industry, sorry. Selector is also used for other reports, etc. as well (but it's actually intergrated or connected with other stuff for that). It's funny, I remember my first time with Selector and how cumbersome and archaic it seemed to me. Then I got used to it quickly and started to like it so much that I wish I had it at home to run my system. LOL! (Problem is I don't keep my music on a computer). I liked putting in all the extra info such as genre, tempo, feel, etc. To me it made it a bit easier to do some production work. I'm glad I found the Collectorz database program as I can at least put all that info in it. It just doesn't program play like Selector. I can print lists and reports though. Ok, ok I'm a nerd or whatever.
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jstang
Honey,I can't hear you...
I have started reading up on the sources and source control systems you guys have mentioned..... Cool stuff.... The pro sound cards are interesting.
http://www.audioscience.com/internet/products/sound_cards/soundcards.htm
Maybe if I ever get around to build a custom pc based music server. I would have to understand fully what dac they use....then again I would never use an audio card in side the electrically noisy pc..... Power supply and emi/emf noise can really never be dealt with correctly in side a pc case.... Not saying they can't sound nice ....just not my cup of tea.
I would use a fiber link to isolate storage system from the playback dac....and reclock/buffer in the dac. Emi/RFI/emf is a killer for sound quality.
I guess I was hoping to hear that higher resolution sources were at least starting to be used more broadly than they seem to be from your feedback....I guess the FM broadcast industry is 44.1k 16 bit for 99% of the content....? And that's that.....
Weren't we supposed to have flying cars already?
Jk
http://www.audioscience.com/internet/products/sound_cards/soundcards.htm
Maybe if I ever get around to build a custom pc based music server. I would have to understand fully what dac they use....then again I would never use an audio card in side the electrically noisy pc..... Power supply and emi/emf noise can really never be dealt with correctly in side a pc case.... Not saying they can't sound nice ....just not my cup of tea.
I would use a fiber link to isolate storage system from the playback dac....and reclock/buffer in the dac. Emi/RFI/emf is a killer for sound quality.
I guess I was hoping to hear that higher resolution sources were at least starting to be used more broadly than they seem to be from your feedback....I guess the FM broadcast industry is 44.1k 16 bit for 99% of the content....? And that's that.....
Weren't we supposed to have flying cars already?
Jk
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KentTeffeteller
Gimpus Stereophilus!
GSelector is a music scheduling program. Never touches the audio in any way. Traffic duties handled by yet another software app as well. Smarts is what we use. Natural Log is another major player.
I noticed the difference between FM broadcastings and some of my records being sometimes in favour of the FM bc.
Naively i always assumed they used expensive dac's (that might still improve on redbook cd or LQ mp3 soundwise), compression, equalizing, digital noise shaping etc. to get that "signature sound" which 9 out of 10 times puts me off and sometimes seems to just "get it right" , rather then using extremely high quality sources.
But i am no purist by any standard and do like my music with some sauce..
Naively i always assumed they used expensive dac's (that might still improve on redbook cd or LQ mp3 soundwise), compression, equalizing, digital noise shaping etc. to get that "signature sound" which 9 out of 10 times puts me off and sometimes seems to just "get it right" , rather then using extremely high quality sources.
But i am no purist by any standard and do like my music with some sauce..
KentTeffeteller
Gimpus Stereophilus!
Broadcasters use better maintained equipment than most any consumer. Caring broadcasters keep their equipment in top condition. Broadcasters do not use consumer sound cards, they usually use AudioScience cards in their PC based automation equipment, they have better processing equipment than anybody else if used correctly and chosen well. They do not use MP3 audio files. Broadcasters do not use equalizers very much.
Serious listening and FM
I don't have a 10B but I often listen to FM giving it my full attention.
I had so much trouble with noise on my local classical station I wrote their engineering department to complain.
Their engineer was nice enough to call and discuss it with me. He did not deny that HD radio was causing the noise. He said they were committed to digital broadcasting and expected FM to go all-digital in the future as they could provide more channels. He suggested I get a tuner with a narrower IF bandwidth, which did indeed help.
Alas, high fidelity is no longer a priority at some stations. Too bad for those who bought FM tuners over the last 50 years! You will be assimilated, resistance is futile... Don't get me started!
FWIW when I volunteered there long ago they were using Revox CD players.
I don't have a 10B but I often listen to FM giving it my full attention.
I had so much trouble with noise on my local classical station I wrote their engineering department to complain.
Their engineer was nice enough to call and discuss it with me. He did not deny that HD radio was causing the noise. He said they were committed to digital broadcasting and expected FM to go all-digital in the future as they could provide more channels. He suggested I get a tuner with a narrower IF bandwidth, which did indeed help.
Alas, high fidelity is no longer a priority at some stations. Too bad for those who bought FM tuners over the last 50 years! You will be assimilated, resistance is futile... Don't get me started!
FWIW when I volunteered there long ago they were using Revox CD players.
El Pee
Super Member
For broadcasters, particularly at the scale of the BBC, consistency and reliability are more important than increasingly small gains in fidelity from the source... (I'd also be willing to bet that they were using broadcast needles on those Sure carts... typically a little larger and heavier for stability and allow for back-cueing. They would destroy your records, but that's not a huge deal for radio stations, the labels will send more.)
El Pee
Super Member
Remember that with big broadcasters everything goes from the source through the board and through processors, limiters EQs and the like. When it is turned from sound signals in a wire to radio waves that go through the air, it must share it's bandwidth with HD radio data HD1 and HD2 signals, PPM signals etc.
Is what you're hearing locally-programmed, or syndicated? If it is syndicated, before it got to your radio station it was compressed and or converted to be delivered via microwave, satellite, or increasingly FTP (or a similar IP system). So there's another variable to account for.
Is what you're hearing locally-programmed, or syndicated? If it is syndicated, before it got to your radio station it was compressed and or converted to be delivered via microwave, satellite, or increasingly FTP (or a similar IP system). So there's another variable to account for.
fredcohiba
Super Member
Went to their website and found the following:
About the Uncompressed Stream
We regret to inform you that our previous offering of an uncompressed audio stream through Windows Media is no longer available and will not return in the foreseeable future.
We do currently offer KEXP's broadcast around the world via standard internet quality MP3 and Windows Media streams and will offer a higher quality audio stream later this summer.
We thank you for your understanding and are confident that you will continue to enjoy KEXP's curated broadcasts online with no loss to your listening pleasure.
Kahoona
Super Member
HI
I am arriving late to this thread but I am curious how good KEXP sounds. I cannot find a link for the 1411 kbps sound on the site. Where are you finding it?
I have also given up on broadcast FM because of the programming. We have one "rock" station called the Gator that claims to be "Palm Beaches only rock station" as if it is a good thing. The internet streaming stations are bringing me back to "radio" once again though.
Music source is probably what they can get out to the mfg's, so if they only offer 44.1Khz,16-bit format that is all that you have to work with. Same as a LP.
Would have to think about it a bit, now that there is RDBS and HD.
How do they encode the RDBS data?
How do they access the library. If it was my radio station, I'd have all music on a server. = no need to load a CD manually anymore. Store the data un-compressed in .wav or equiv file.
But .wav has no ID tag info in the file so could add tag info to file and store music in wma format, un-compressed, so that you could access tag info and put it into the rdbs "RT" fifo stream.
I am sure there are many of them out there doing it just like the old days, all/mostly done in analog, well the CD player/DAC is done prior to the analog mixing process.
So how do they stream the data out to the net?
Get the idea of how to run a modern day radio station?
Would have to think about it a bit, now that there is RDBS and HD.
How do they encode the RDBS data?
How do they access the library. If it was my radio station, I'd have all music on a server. = no need to load a CD manually anymore. Store the data un-compressed in .wav or equiv file.
But .wav has no ID tag info in the file so could add tag info to file and store music in wma format, un-compressed, so that you could access tag info and put it into the rdbs "RT" fifo stream.
I am sure there are many of them out there doing it just like the old days, all/mostly done in analog, well the CD player/DAC is done prior to the analog mixing process.
So how do they stream the data out to the net?
Get the idea of how to run a modern day radio station?
michaelhigh
mind's eye music
Good things never last forever... :thumbsdn:
Don't really care about what they use to broadcast over the airwaves I would wish they didn't keep playing the same tunes over and over again from day to day! And to beat it all they play some oldies that aren't the originals ah yes they maybe be done by some of the original players but still don't sound the same as the originals that I have!
I've heard these same tunes on one station or the other for 50+ yrs and I'm sick of most of them/burnt out!
I've called many stations over the years and they have all said the same and that is that they can't have all the tunes just some of them and that it would be to costly to get newer/old tunes! If they had just kept some of them down through the yrs everytime they changed their formats they would have still more but no they didn't think of that did they?
I've heard these same tunes on one station or the other for 50+ yrs and I'm sick of most of them/burnt out!
I've called many stations over the years and they have all said the same and that is that they can't have all the tunes just some of them and that it would be to costly to get newer/old tunes! If they had just kept some of them down through the yrs everytime they changed their formats they would have still more but no they didn't think of that did they?