What's the story on Sony's S-Master Digital Amps?

FauxHall

FauxHall

Super Member
Picked up one of Sony "Home Theater" receiver/players, the AVD-C700ES and it sound darn good! Especially with a SACD as it the amps run directly off DSD.

I see they offered big boy receivers like the STR-DA7100ES and have a long technical description brochure on Sony's eSupport website but does anyone have the whole story? Which are the pick of the litters for audio, which has the highest WPC in stereo, where is the sweet spot in the development of the technology?

I'd love to know more.
 
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I remember Sharp also had some mega $$$ integrated amp that tap the DSD bistream directly. According to what I read, Yamaha's current line of HT receivers allow decoding of the DSD bitstream without first converting to PCM.

As for Sony's digital amp technology, was it any different than other company's? At one point, almost all of the mainstream manufacturers had at least one digital amp-powered component in their lineup....with Panasonic's line of HT receivers being the most well-known. Then all of a sudden, these digital amp-powered components completely disappeared.

I just noticed TEAC has just introduced a $500 22-watts/channel (into 8 ohms) digital integrated amp (based on B&O ICE digital amps) with a build-in DAC (featuring Burr-Brown DACs)

Btw, this is the ultimate digital amp.
 
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That Yamaha MX-D1 uses pulse width modulation. Is that the standard Class D amp and how does it differ from the DSD single bit system?
 
So it looks like few here know any more than I do about the S-Master Pro amps from Sony?

Surely, SOMEBODY knows something!
 
I see that Sony is offering a Walkman F-series with an S-Master amp to drive the headphones.

Seems to make for great sound and if I were in the market for a PMP, it would be the one I'd get if the problem with the Android operating system I've seen on the Apple laptop is resolved.
 
chicks said:
An interesting read. Does Sony have/plan any two-channel S Master amps?
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Sony has one in Japan for several years....the TA-DR1a stereo integrated amp with S-Master Pro circuitry. Cost about US$14,000 though....

TA-DR1a.jpg

TA-DR1a_001.jpg
 
When I moved from a five channel system to a seven channel system, I purchased a DA 5000 ES home theater receiver which uses the Master series class D amps. Overall, I was not impressed at all. The ES 555 which this amp replaced was a much better sounding amp with much more power.

The amps sounded dry, compressed and did not drive my speakers like the 555 did. I have since switched to conventional Rotel amps and pre amps and am much happier with the sound. Yes, my 4 ohm M&K's are a bit hard on amps but they sound alive with the rotel gear.
 
The panasonic SA-XR57 series etc. were a great deal when they closed these out for around $250. For two channel you could use 6 out of the 7 HTR amps (100Wx7 @ 6ohms) to tri-amp/bi-wire into dual post speakers and stream straight through digital sources using HDMI or digital coax connections.
 
For Sony, DSD is increasingly looking like a solution for which there is little demand.

While I'm a big fan of and have a large investment (for me, cheapskate that I am) in SACDs and players for SACDs, hi res PCM downloads appear to meet market desires better. 192/24 recordings can sound even smoother and more detailed than DSD and can be downloaded and stored easily and cheaply.

One big plus for Sony's music division and other owners of copyrights has been the tight copy protection on SACD discs. While I understand and support copyrights as an aid to the creative arts (no ripper I), legitimate user storage and transfer uses are blocked. You can't rip a track off an SACD to your PMP, for example.

I too have seen S-Master two channel integrated amps for the European markets. I'd be tempted if the 1) the price was right, 2) shipping was reasonable, and 3) they supported 120V AC, the US standard.

So far the closest I've seen to meeting my needs here in California has been the AVD-C700ES and the STR-DA7100ES. But neither has enough power for my Thiels (no bi-amping!).
 
Yeah, I bought mine for a few reasons, not least of which is a nasty twitch in right hand when I get near a buy button. Besides that I've heard good things about class-d amps and notice that there's not many serious reviews or comparisons with traditional stuff, so as all my sources are digital I was curious to see what they were like. Maybe not quite curious enough to buy one when I was looking at either something cheap from China or something very expensive (to me) from NAD or similar, but this looked to be a good quality implementation and was going cheap, I suspect because they are so obscure.

Mine is in fact 240v (I'm in the England) and doesn't appear to switch, but I think a lot of Europe are on 110v so if it was widely available there probably is a version. It is however only 100w a channel. That's plenty for me but it sounds like you need a bit more.

I don't feel qualified to definitely assess it at the moment. Because I've limited experience in HiFi and so not enough to compare it with (would love to hear some high end systems at some point to give me benchmarks) and because I'm having to run it through old KEF Cresta 2s atm which probably arn't doing either of my amps justice.

With all those caveats in place I will say that it sounds very different to my NAD C325bee, which is probably not surprising. The Sony in contrast to the NAD is aggressively neutral and never has so much of a trace of harshness in the upper mid or lower treble (something I had been blaming the speakers for), it is incredibly easy to listen to and non fatiguing. As you would expect it also has comparatively excellent detail and separation.

On the other hand for all the quirks the Sony has highlighted for me in the NAD I think I still prefer its warmth, body and punch, it just seems to me to make the music feel more alive and engaging. The only possible exception I'd make is on lively tracks with lots going on across the the full frequency range as the NAD can start to lose track of all the detail while the Sony always seems to comfortably render each sound separately without losing a thing. I'm not sure about the bass on the Sony, obviously coming from a NAD to a class D is a big adjustment and it would be even less fair to comment while they're running through relatively cheap bookshelf speakers.

That might change tonight though, I am picking up a pair of Tannoy Saturn 8LR, another impulse buy which I hope will be an improvement :)
 
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MrLem said:
Yeah, I bought mine for a few reasons, not least of which is a nasty twitch in right hand when I get near a buy button....

On the other hand for all the quirks the Sony has highlighted for me in the NAD I think I still prefer its warmth, body and punch, it just seems to me to make the music feel more alive and engaging. The only possible exception I'd make is on lively tracks with lots going on across the the full frequency range as the NAD can start to lose track of all the detail while the Sony always seems to comfortably render each sound separately without losing a thing.
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Nice write-up MrLem... as a Brit Speaker guy myself (and NAD AVR Owner), I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on how the Sony sounds with the Tannoy's. And thanks for your detailed assessment so far! :thmbsp:
 
Thanks for the feedback :)

I'll report back on the Tannoy / Sony combination in a bit. I'm just taking a few days to get used to them with my NAD then I'll switch back and do another comparison.
 
The only S-Master Pro receiver I've had was the STR-DA2000ES. Entry level ES receiver, but I liked it. My primary complaint was that though it was rated at 120 W/channel, it would run out of steam far faster than any 120w amp should. It sounded dry, but decent.
 
GHilinski said:
When I moved from a five channel system to a seven channel system, I purchased a DA 5000 ES home theater receiver which uses the Master series class D amps. Overall, I was not impressed at all. The ES 555 which this amp replaced was a much better sounding amp with much more power.

The amps sounded dry, compressed and did not drive my speakers like the 555 did. I have since switched to conventional Rotel amps and pre amps and am much happier with the sound. Yes, my 4 ohm M&K's are a bit hard on amps but they sound alive with the rotel gear.
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I would agree. I have a 3100ES and it is not as musical as my 985S. I'm thinking of trading it around in my system to see if it's the speakers, placement or what?

The 3100 is a lot cleaner, more power, weighs like 47 lbs, is a real beast and is rated for 4 ohm loads (4 - 8 is switch selectable), but it is dry and analytic sounding most of the time. The built-in phono section is not good, the FM tuner is mediocre at best. Pair it with a warm source and you are fine (in my case, that's a Nikko NT850 tuner - they love each other). Pair it with a cold source and it will hurt your ears.
 
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