What's This Sound? - Thorens 124 aka my first Thorens

S

SadTrombone

New Member
Hello! New member here. I have been using more modern / direct drive turntables for 25+ years. Had the good fortune to receive hand me down from a pal who was upgrading. It's been great so far and I've been delighted with the overall sound. Only one thing bothering me : I'm noticing a quiet whir / chatter / "chik-chik-chik-chik" type sound right when the needle hits the first part of a record or doing ULTRA quiet parts of songs. If you can get your ear super close to the platter, you can here that quiet whirr while the upper platter is in motion.

I'm pretty awful when it comes to being mechanically inclined but I built up the confidence to tinker around a bit and try and problem solve. I initially removed the belt and the sound disappeared. So not the motor (i think?). Reattached the belt and the noise was apparent again. It seems like it's coming from the stepped pulley. When the idler wheel is pushed back from the pulley - the sound is still audible (ie. not the wheel)

Here's a close up video below. You'll need to click the sound on. It's nowhere near this loud in actuality - but hopefully gives a good idea of what the problem could be. Could it be the belt? Pulley needs some oiling? Screw lose somewhere? Is this a normal operating sound for an older turntable?

Video : https://imgur.com/a/CwnuhWz

I greatly appreciate any help or insight that you could offer. Thank you in advance!
 
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Has it been serviced, cleaned and lubed? Also does it have the original idler? Sometimes the actual idler will make a similar noise…

VR
Andy
 
Welcome to AK. There are many, many, many threads here and some very nice write up on other sites on this table and what needs to be done to service them. It's a straight forward affair generally. If you take the time to use the "search... " at the top right of this screen I'll bet you'll find some answers.
 
kwayde said:
What function does that small hold-down tab on the left have? Shouldn't that be moved off the drive? I don't know much about Thorens but I'm curious.
Click to expand...

^^^ No. It's where it belongs. As long as it's tight and not rattling it's right.
 
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There were two versions of the stepped pulley.

Newer version had the stepped pulley attached to a shaft that spun in a well.
The older version (like mine) had the stepped pulley spin on a fixed shaft protruding from the turntable 's deck. The height of the shaft was set from below.
On top of that fixed shaft sat a ball bearing.
On my unit, that ball bearing became "scored" (I guess from lack of lubrication) and "clicked" as the stepped pulley spun on it.
I replaced the bearing, greased the bearing and shaft and the "click" disappeared.
Post some pictures please.
 
Welcome to AK!

That sound in the video is belt whooshing. Shake the belt in a baggie with talcum powder and strap it back on. The whooshing will be gone.
 
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adnick said:
Has it been serviced, cleaned and lubed? Also does it have the original idler? Sometimes the actual idler will make a similar noise…
VR
Andy
Click to expand...

It has been serviced and generally well taken care of. Upgraded tone arms, plinth etc. Well oiled and cleaned. This came from a loving home. I do not know when the last service was though. Looking to avoid the service route (not too many options in So Cal) but will fall back on a general service if this isn not something I can solve on my own. Thanks for the info! When the belt was off / idler stopped - the "noise" went away - i do not think it is that.
 
heyraz said:
There were two versions of the stepped pulley.

On top of that fixed shaft sat a ball bearing. On my unit, that ball bearing became "scored" (I guess from lack of lubrication) and "clicked" as the stepped pulley spun on it.
I replaced the bearing, greased the bearing and shaft and the "click" disappeared.
Post some pictures please.
Click to expand...

ohhh I believe that's what I have : https://imgur.com/a/lbfXdyy

(ignore the tab which has been unscrewed, about to remove the belt to try the talc option!)
 
Well this was quite the journey! I am a drysuit diver and my suit came with talc. It's been sitting in a closet unused for a few years. Sprinkled a bit in a bag, gave it shake / wiped it off and the sound was GREATLY reduced. Still there a a bit...but you would really really need to focus in on it. I'll try swapping belts at some point soon.

Put on a record to give it a play test and I still could hear a bit of chatter. Oh no! Back into the rabbit hole. It's typically a sound I would associate with a cartridge being dragged on the record BUT i just measured and weighed it the other day...

I get out my stylus force gauge and give it a go just to double check. That's when I noticed the "dwt" next to the weight. Turns out I somehow set my gauge to PENNYWEIGHT :wtf:

So that initial noise that I noticed while listening ......It was the cartridge ever so slightly dragging on the record :rflmao:

I really appreciate the help. I learned a bunch about this turntable in the last few hours. Thanks to this forum I likely got a head start on that belt/pulley chatter!
 
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I see from Your pictures that your turntable has been upgraded.
-> It has the MK II Motor Mounts.
-> The main spindle bearing is brass, definitely not Nylatron.
-> Not sure if that's the top of the ball bearing I see exposed at the top of the Stepped Pulley. Try and listen to that area to see if that's where the clicking is coming from. I believe I have a small plastic cap over the top of the Stepped Pulley to keep dust, etc. out.

I used a stethoscope when I restored my TD-124. It helped me locate vibrations.


*After the "J&J Baby Powder" Lawsuit* (which they lost), J&J switched to cornstarch.

Talc is a naturally occurring slippery mineral, that's why it works so well on the belt drive...it keeps the belt from "grabbing" as it gets stretched around the pulleys.

*J&J lost their lawsuit because the talc they mined contained asbestos.
J&J knew their talc was contaminated by asbestos and could cause mesothelioma and ovarian cancer, but did nothing to warn consumers about the risk.

I'm a pharmacist and no powder on the shelf contains Talc...it's all Cornstarch, which doesn't work like Talc (Cornstarch absorbs moisture).

In May 2020, Johnson & Johnson announced that the company would be withdrawing its talc-based baby powder from select markets. Although the company continues to claim that its talc-based baby powder is safe and does not contain asbestos, the product was discontinued in North America.

(I have an old container of Talc powder that I put away for my TD-124).

If you have the real thing...don't waste it!
 
heyraz said:
I see from Your pictures that your turntable has been upgraded.
-> It has the MK II Motor Mounts.
-> The main spindle bearing is brass, definitely not Nylatron.
-> Not sure if that's the top of the ball bearing I see exposed at the top of the Stepped Pulley.
Click to expand...
The springs on the motor mounts are an upgrade but I think you're slightly misinformed about the rest. The main bearing nylatron bushings and the Emporium stepped pulley were present only on low serial number Mk-I. It's the minority - not the rule. In fact, it's quite a rarity in comparison with the rest of them. The rest of the run had sintered bronze bushings in the main bearing well and the 2nd generation stepped pulley with the pin type bearing and the nylon sleeve for the 16 RPM step. That's what the OP has. FWIW the low serial numbers also got smaller motor coils.
 
@tnsilver wrote:
The main bearing nylatron bushings and the Emporium stepped pulley were present only on low serial number Mk-I
Click to expand...
@SadTrombone wrote:
Serial # is 23246 (i assume that is not a low serial)
Click to expand...
@tnsilver wrote:
No, it's not. You have the normal stepped pulley and bronze bushings. Mine is bellow 10000 and it's already like yours.
Click to expand...

Serial number on my unit is 12565 (later than tnsilver's and before SadTrombone's) and I had to replace the original Nylatron Main Spindle Bushings. I also have the original Emporium stepped pulley. Perhaps Thorens was running more than one production line and my unit was manufactured on a different line than tnsilver's.


If the bushings for the stepped pulleys on SadTrombone's unit are worn and sloppy, I see replacements are available from AudioSilente.
 
I don't think they had more than one production site for the TD-124 at the end of the 50's. We know from their history, such like with the case of the arbitrary TD-165 round motor vs. the common triangular motor, these guys hated to be wasteful. My best guess is they've used up their stockpile of Emporium pulleys and nylatron bushings on the low serial numbers (12565 can still be regarded as early - since they've made more than 90,000 of them in a decade) until the warehouse ran dry, while in parallel they've inaugurated the bronze bushings and the new stepped pulley, that was likely cheaper and simpler to make.
 
Very odd. My TD-124 is serial # 21265 and has what I believe is the early version of the stepped pulley. Am I wrong? (picture below for confirmation). I see sadtrombone's looks like the newer version, but just for general reference, it seems the early one was used much later than many believe.
 

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