• Please note that there are a few updates and clarifications made in the Audiokarma Rules, mostly relating to advertising and the addition of the new "Paying it Forward" & "Giving back" forums in the AudioKarma Audio Marketplace section.

Where to find transistors for SX 636?

pdxtim

Well-Known Member
A local tech replaced caps in my flea market SX 636 and the sound improved significantly. He said the transistors were fine and didn't need to be replaced. All was good till some very loud feedback/"bad ground" type sounds came from the unit a few weeks ago. I took it back and asked him to replace these transistors:

2SC 1451
2SA 725
2SA 726
2SC 458 (if present, may not have been used)
2SA 720 (if present)

Unfortunately he said he can't find these anywhere. Has anyone else had this problem? Any idea where to find them? Thx in advance for any help.
 
Register to hide this ad
Hey Mark and redk,
Thanks for the reply, I really appreciate it. My tech told me though that the companies that he's dealt with for years (like Mouser) no longer have transistors that formerly were readily available. He said some of the companies have gone out of business. Have you found this to be true? Thanks again.
 
I think your tech is just not familiar with the substitutions of the older transistors in vintage gear. If your not doing vintage audio repair all the time why would you be? Mouser has all the parts you will need for your 636 along with at least a half dozen other big supply houses. The key is getting the correct substitutions.
 
I got the SX 636 back from my tech, and he couldn't find anything wrong. I have yet to hook it up as before to see what happens, but I'm thinking it was some type of ground wire issue???
He said he looked for replacements for the transistors as below but cannot locate any of the NTEs:
  • for 2SC1509 he's looking for an NTE297
  • for 2SA777 an NTE298
  • for 2SC1451 an NTE287
  • for 2SA726 an NTE234
Anyone know if the NTEs listed above are suitable replacements, if the receiver gets cranky again?
 
NONE of the original transistors are being made today. Over the years a few techs here have researched, tested on their own gear, and put out lists for Most of the PIONEER SX (and SA, etc) series units. Mark the Fixer being the most prolific and tested. His lists have been used for almost 25 years to my knowledge.

NTE are absolutely the last junk you'd want to put in your SX-636.
Go up to the lists in posts #3 and you'll find the replacement parts needed. If it's NOT LISTED it's not a problem part. All parts on this list are proven, and are direct from FAIRCHILD / ONSEMI, NICHICON, WIMA, CORNELL-DUBLIER ETC. They aren't from the "lowest bidder" like NTE gets their stuff and you don't know where it came from. Stay away from NTE unless it's the last thing in the world and you are absolutely unequivocally desperate!!! Besides, the Fairchild Transistors are generally less expensive than the over charged NTE's and a hell of a lot better product than the NTE stuff.

The two transistors you want to replace NOW are ALL of the 2SA725/726. These are on the 10 worst transistors list. Have your tech go to Mouser and order KSA992FTA, FBU, FATA, or FBTA. The "F" is the Gain rating. The rest of the suffix is the packaging and has no bearing on the transistor itself. Bulk, tape, etc.

The other and more important replacement is the 2sc1451. It's replacement is the KSC3503DS or DSTU. Again the Suffix is broke down to the "D" being the gain rating and the rest is packaging . Just get the cheaper of the two.

Don't worry about the other two as they aren't problem children. Replacing the 2sa725/726 and the 2sc1451's will mitigate 90% of the noise problems in the 636 short of recapping.

Personally it sounds to me as if your "TECH" is fabricating excuses for NOT wanting to work on this unit. Recapping and restorations are loss leader's for shops. Their "bread and butter" is fast turn around items that bring in $$$. Restorations take time and $$ from the average shop. FIND ANOTHER SHOP that will do RESTORATIONS. OR Ask around on the FORUMS for Someone on AK that will do a restoration and do it correctly with all the parts that have been researched, tested, and proven out on hundreds if not thousands of units over the years. And we CAN and DO update these IF a member puts up a list to be vetted. It will be researched against what Mouser has, obsolete and discontinued parts updated, etc., so you have the latest parts list with parts that will do the job and are rated for a more powerful unit (to mitigate against a over-voltage or running a part at the ragged edge).

You will more than likely have to ship the unit out. But it can be packed so no damage is done. And you'll get back a unit that has been brought up to 2017/2018 spec and better than what PIONEER designed in some respects. A shop ain't gonna do this as they'll lose $$$ on it.

Larry
 
The tech is wasting his time and probably your $ doing that NTE investigation. I am not saying his selection as far as NTE goes, will not work, but forget the NTE unless it is a last resort. The tech does not know what we know, real simple. remember we are the experts, since this is our hobby or side business to some.
Larry has lots experience from practice and what members have learnt.
 
Thanks rcs, and thanks especially Larry for the detailed reply. Larry, I think you're right about the tech. He's a nice guy, he did recap the unit and it sounds much better, but he's retired and I don't think he wants to mess with the transistors. I may take it to another shop nearby.
 
The SX-636 is a little sweetheart of a set, not very complex or demanding, yet does a NICE job.... she deserves a little TLC.

Your issues are a CLASSIC symptom of a 2sc1451 getting ready to blow out an amplifier channel. They can be COUNTED on doing that.
ALL power up time until they are REMOVED is a risk of popping the channel. It WILL take out more than transistors that would be replaced anyways.
While the list Larry told you about has some transistors on back order, like the 512-KSC1845FTA , they are not a critical or serious problem and CAN wait.

Frankly my advice is to get the transistors from Mouser YOURSELF, and then give them and the unit to your tech along with a list of what goes where. We can help you with that.
Put it to him as that he doesn't have to waste his time researching substitutions, others have done the work in the past and he is standing upon the shoulders of time tested and PROVEN substitutions. Also doesn't have to fool around getting them. You have turned this job into a fast turnaround item for him. He SHOULD like that.

First you need to LOOK inside to visually identify which transistor numbers are actually in there. Don't sweat it, we'll help. Sometimes the a726 transistor we expect is actually an a763 - which is ok and doesn't NEED replacement for safety's sake. It MIGHT help the sound - or not depending upon whether or not the old transistor has held it's gain over the years.
In a restoration, since I am already in and on the board, it just goes - that why my consistently high quality results in a restoration occur.

both channels of power amp:
awh-034 q1 2sa726 x x x x 512-KSA992FBU ***** HIGH PRIORITY REPLACEMENT!!! *****
awh-034 q2 2sa726 x x x x 512-KSA992FBU ***** HIGH PRIORITY REPLACEMENT!!! *****
awh-034 q3 2sa726 x x x x 512-KSA992FBU ***** HIGH PRIORITY REPLACEMENT!!! *****
awh-034 q4 2sa726 x x x x 512-KSA992FBU ***** HIGH PRIORITY REPLACEMENT!!! *****
awh-034 q5 2sc1451 x x x x 512-KSC3503dstu ***** HIGH PRIORITY REPLACEMENT!!! *****
awh-034 q6 2sc1451 x x x x 512-KSC3503dstu ***** HIGH PRIORITY REPLACEMENT!!! *****
af amp:
awk-035 q1 2sa726 x x x x 512-KSA992FBU ***** HIGH PRIORITY REPLACEMENT!!! *****
awk-035 q2 2sa726 x x x x 512-KSA992FBU ***** HIGH PRIORITY REPLACEMENT!!! *****
power supply:
awr-060/61 q1 2sd234 x x x x 512-KSC2073TU
awr-060/61 q2 2sc945 x x x x 512-KSC2383Yta
awr-060/61 q3 2sd313 x x x x 512-KSC2073TU
awr-060/61 d8 wz-140 x x x x 512-1N5244B


and for later on:
the rest of the af amp:
awk-035 q3 2sc1344 x x x x 512-KSC1845FTA
awk-035 q4 2sc1344 x x x x 512-KSC1845FTA
awk-035 q5 2sc1344 x x x x 512-KSC1845FTA
awk-035 q6 2sc1344 x x x x 512-KSC1845FTA
phono preamp:
awf-014 q1 2sc1344 x x x x 512-KSC1845FTA
awf-014 q2 2sc1344 x x x x 512-KSC1845FTA
awf-014 q3 2sc1344 x x x x 512-KSC1845FTA
awf-014 q4 2sc1344 x x x x 512-KSC1845FTA

now, WOW, that list looks like a YIKES!! huh?? It ain't...

6 x 512-KSA992FBU (in stock at mouser!!) replaces all 2sa726's, four in the power amps and TWO in the "af amp" around the volume control
2 x 512-KSC3503dstu (in stock at mouser!!) replaces all 2sc1451's, two in the power amp.
8 x 512-KSC1845FTA (on back order) makes it sound better. proven.

The power supply stuff (ksc2073,ksc2383,1n5244b) we'll leave alone for simplicity's sake.
 
Last edited:
Mark,
Thank you thank you thank you! This clears up the situation greatly, I REALLY appreciate it. I checked out Mouser, and as many have said, all the parts are easily available. I'll let you know how it goes.
 
My first long term "keeper" unit was a SX-636, and it STILL is here, operative (but in need of it's own a992/c1845/c3503 surgery) on a shelf and actually hooked up. It was a shelf demonstrator my employer was retiring, and I had auditioned (and worked on!!) many many other models, and for the speakers and size of the room it occupied, it was correctly sized and I couldn't beat the price with a stick... Had I wanted to (and had the space for it) that year (1977) I had my choice through the 1250, the 1280 and even the King the SX-1980.

Instead, it was a SX-636, Project 100a speakers and a CT-F9191 cassette deck.

I DID drool over the 1980, the HPM-100's and the CT-F1000 back then, but now I have them, too.
 
NONE of the original transistors are being made today. Over the years a few techs here have researched, tested on their own gear, and put out lists for Most of the PIONEER SX (and SA, etc) series units. Mark the Fixer being the most prolific and tested. His lists have been used for almost 25 years to my knowledge.

NTE are absolutely the last junk you'd want to put in your SX-636.
Go up to the lists in posts #3 and you'll find the replacement parts needed. If it's NOT LISTED it's not a problem part. All parts on this list are proven, and are direct from FAIRCHILD / ONSEMI, NICHICON, WIMA, CORNELL-DUBLIER ETC. They aren't from the "lowest bidder" like NTE gets their stuff and you don't know where it came from. Stay away from NTE unless it's the last thing in the world and you are absolutely unequivocally desperate!!! Besides, the Fairchild Transistors are generally less expensive than the over charged NTE's and a hell of a lot better product than the NTE stuff.

The two transistors you want to replace NOW are ALL of the 2SA725/726. These are on the 10 worst transistors list. Have your tech go to Mouser and order KSA992FTA, FBU, FATA, or FBTA. The "F" is the Gain rating. The rest of the suffix is the packaging and has no bearing on the transistor itself. Bulk, tape, etc.

The other and more important replacement is the 2sc1451. It's replacement is the KSC3503DS or DSTU. Again the Suffix is broke down to the "D" being the gain rating and the rest is packaging . Just get the cheaper of the two.

Don't worry about the other two as they aren't problem children. Replacing the 2sa725/726 and the 2sc1451's will mitigate 90% of the noise problems in the 636 short of recapping.

Personally it sounds to me as if your "TECH" is fabricating excuses for NOT wanting to work on this unit. Recapping and restorations are loss leader's for shops. Their "bread and butter" is fast turn around items that bring in $$$. Restorations take time and $$ from the average shop. FIND ANOTHER SHOP that will do RESTORATIONS. OR Ask around on the FORUMS for Someone on AK that will do a restoration and do it correctly with all the parts that have been researched, tested, and proven out on hundreds if not thousands of units over the years. And we CAN and DO update these IF a member puts up a list to be vetted. It will be researched against what Mouser has, obsolete and discontinued parts updated, etc., so you have the latest parts list with parts that will do the job and are rated for a more powerful unit (to mitigate against a over-voltage or running a part at the ragged edge).

You will more than likely have to ship the unit out. But it can be packed so no damage is done. And you'll get back a unit that has been brought up to 2017/2018 spec and better than what PIONEER designed in some respects. A shop ain't gonna do this as they'll lose $$$ on it.

Larry
Hey Larry,
Regarding your comments on NTE stuff, I have a few questions:
  • Are capacitors from NTE of poor quality? The reason I ask is cause my tech may have used them to recap the SX 636. If he did use NTE caps, I should just leave it alone until they go bad???
  • I took a Sony STR 6065 to him a week ago and asked him to check the caps. Should I contact him and tell him NOT to use NTE caps, if that's what he plans on using?
Thanks in advance for your help.
 
The SX-636 is a little sweetheart of a set, not very complex or demanding, yet does a NICE job.... she deserves a little TLC.

Your issues are a CLASSIC symptom of a 2sc1451 getting ready to blow out an amplifier channel. They can be COUNTED on doing that.
ALL power up time until they are REMOVED is a risk of popping the channel. It WILL take out more than transistors that would be replaced anyways.
While the list Larry told you about has some transistors on back order, like the 512-KSC1845FTA , they are not a critical or serious problem and CAN wait.

Frankly my advice is to get the transistors from Mouser YOURSELF, and then give them and the unit to your tech along with a list of what goes where. We can help you with that.
Put it to him as that he doesn't have to waste his time researching substitutions, others have done the work in the past and he is standing upon the shoulders of time tested and PROVEN substitutions. Also doesn't have to fool around getting them. You have turned this job into a fast turnaround item for him. He SHOULD like that.

First you need to LOOK inside to visually identify which transistor numbers are actually in there. Don't sweat it, we'll help. Sometimes the a726 transistor we expect is actually an a763 - which is ok and doesn't NEED replacement for safety's sake. It MIGHT help the sound - or not depending upon whether or not the old transistor has held it's gain over the years.
In a restoration, since I am already in and on the board, it just goes - that why my consistently high quality results in a restoration occur.

both channels of power amp:
awh-034 q1 2sa726 x x x x 512-KSA992FBU ***** HIGH PRIORITY REPLACEMENT!!! *****
awh-034 q2 2sa726 x x x x 512-KSA992FBU ***** HIGH PRIORITY REPLACEMENT!!! *****
awh-034 q3 2sa726 x x x x 512-KSA992FBU ***** HIGH PRIORITY REPLACEMENT!!! *****
awh-034 q4 2sa726 x x x x 512-KSA992FBU ***** HIGH PRIORITY REPLACEMENT!!! *****
awh-034 q5 2sc1451 x x x x 512-KSC3503dstu ***** HIGH PRIORITY REPLACEMENT!!! *****
awh-034 q6 2sc1451 x x x x 512-KSC3503dstu ***** HIGH PRIORITY REPLACEMENT!!! *****
af amp:
awk-035 q1 2sa726 x x x x 512-KSA992FBU ***** HIGH PRIORITY REPLACEMENT!!! *****
awk-035 q2 2sa726 x x x x 512-KSA992FBU ***** HIGH PRIORITY REPLACEMENT!!! *****
power supply:
awr-060/61 q1 2sd234 x x x x 512-KSC2073TU
awr-060/61 q2 2sc945 x x x x 512-KSC2383Yta
awr-060/61 q3 2sd313 x x x x 512-KSC2073TU
awr-060/61 d8 wz-140 x x x x 512-1N5244B


and for later on:
the rest of the af amp:
awk-035 q3 2sc1344 x x x x 512-KSC1845FTA
awk-035 q4 2sc1344 x x x x 512-KSC1845FTA
awk-035 q5 2sc1344 x x x x 512-KSC1845FTA
awk-035 q6 2sc1344 x x x x 512-KSC1845FTA
phono preamp:
awf-014 q1 2sc1344 x x x x 512-KSC1845FTA
awf-014 q2 2sc1344 x x x x 512-KSC1845FTA
awf-014 q3 2sc1344 x x x x 512-KSC1845FTA
awf-014 q4 2sc1344 x x x x 512-KSC1845FTA

now, WOW, that list looks like a YIKES!! huh?? It ain't...

6 x 512-KSA992FBU (in stock at mouser!!) replaces all 2sa726's, four in the power amps and TWO in the "af amp" around the volume control
2 x 512-KSC3503dstu (in stock at mouser!!) replaces all 2sc1451's, two in the power amp.
8 x 512-KSC1845FTA (on back order) makes it sound better. proven.

The power supply stuff (ksc2073,ksc2383,1n5244b) we'll leave alone for simplicity's sake.
Hey Mark,
I'm giving some thought to replacing the 8 transistors myself. I am hesitant though cause my soldering experience is limited to tinning speaker wire ends (ha). I have worked on cars (brakes, tune ups in the old days, etc) and bicycles but my electronics experience is limited. What do you think, should I pay my tech $70 or so to do the transistors or give it a shot myself. I'm thinking that at minimum I'd need to get a new soldering iron, as the two I have (a WalMart Weller and a 25 watt Wall Lenk) prolly are not sufficient. What do you think?
 
Last edited:
My recommendation in the past was to get a temperature controlled iron, and then get a piece of electronic junk and use that for desoldering / soldering practice until you can get the components out and in without damage. Even a second piece of junk if needed. Plenty of youtube soldering videos. no specific recommendations there.

Then we will educate you on polarity and lead arrangements, transistor symbols and how they are used as a road map for installation.

Get a service manual so you have a road map towards finding and identifying specific components.

It all depends upon the access to the bottoms of the boards. I don't remember what is shrouded / hidden in the SX-636.

BTW the only reason I am online here so prolifically lately as I am recuperating from my 2 week hospital stay with about a week in intensive care.
 
Glad you're back MTF! I re-capped and re-transistored the power amp in my SX-636 in about 1/2 hour without being in a rush. Point being; it isn't difficult- your tech could probably do it very quickly, but the parts acquisition map for this represents new territory for him.
Middle ground might be to order the transistors yourself from Mouser (order extras in qty's of 10's) print the substitution lists from here (including the pinouts; ECB, BCE orientation) and see if he'll install them. He'll have to enlarge the holes for the 3503's iirc. A #11 exacto blade twisted gently in the holes (like a drill bit) enlarges them nicely without lifting the pad.
 
Last edited:
Thanks UncleB and Mark. I took a look at the receiver and found the 4 sa726 and the 2 ksc1451 on the amp board and 2 sa725 on the tuner. It doesn't look too hard, maybe I'll give it a shot... we'll see.

One other thing: the tech replaced 6 caps. I saw some new caps that had been installed, but I also saw 2 blue Sanyo caps, one which is small, and the other which is really small, on the tuner board. Ideally shouldn't ALL the Sanyo caps been taken out???

Thanks again Mark, hope you're back up to full speed soon!
 
Sanyo's as a General Rule should be removed and replaced. Especially if they are robin egg blue and below 4.7uf. I generally leave tuners alone, and all of my units have Sanyo's in the tuners still. You CAN change them out if you feel like it. The side with the stripe and arrow or variation on an arrow or a minus sign (-) is the negative side. Polarity is just as important here as it is installing a car battery. NTE's caps aren't bad, they just aren't as good as the worst Nichicon and 3-4 times the price. You can get a 4.7uf 50V Nichicon for $.25-$.50 but pay almost $2.00 for an NTE packaged cap that isn't 1/2 as good.

Like Mark said, get a junk piece of board with components on it and practice soldering and De-Soldering on it. Once you are comfortable with it and your work looks good, then determine what needs replacing and get the parts. Bets are you'll pay less for the brand name stuff from Mouser getting a bunch of stuff that if you'd have gotten NTE parts, you'd pay a wallet full of $10 bills.

For Example, Way back when before I joined AK, I recapped and re transistored an AKAI GX-365D Reel to Reel. I spent approx. $225.00 on parts at the local parts dealer ($4.00 for a NTE85 to replace all the 2sc458's and there were approx 30). After I joined AK, I priced out the equivalent parts @ mouser (Fairchild Transistors, Nichicon caps, etc.) and came up with a parts cost of about $40. plus about $15.00 shipping. Put the best parts for the $$$ in it, even if you have to wait a few days. None of my total restorations on SX-x3x series receivers has cost over $100.00 and that includes the Main Filter caps, shipping etc. The only one's that cost more than $100.00 for caps and stuff is my TUBE GEAR! And then it's about $150.00-$200. for a FISHER 400 or 800c. Different amp/tuner/preamp combo's cost a little more or less, but I still get the parts from Mouser except the CAN CAPS.
 
Back
Top Bottom