Why does my SAE 2200 power amp sound so bad?

A

Alkeys

Active Member
Ok here's a funny thing. I have a few receivers and integrateds lying around.
I also have a NAD 1155 preamp hooked up to a SAE 2200 power amp.
I know the NAD 1155 sounds good because have tried it with other amplifiers and it sounds great.

Anyway,

The SAE 2200 amp when hooked up to my NAD 1155 pre, sounds WORSE than my $20 Toshiba M22 integrated amp that I got at the thrift store. I tried my NAD 1155 with a 60 watt Rotel 970BX amplfier and that thing cranks out way more bass than the beefy 100 watt SAE. What gives? The only reason I can't stand the Rotel and I've tried two of them and they both exhibit the same problem, is that they kind of have a very faint 60hz ground hum that comes through the speakers when nothing is playing. The SAE, dead silent in this regard.

Here I was all stoked on trying out this SAE 2200 because it's supposed to be 100w and is all beefy but I am so astounded that it puts out less bass and a harsher treble than every other piece I own.

Does the SAE 2200 just sound bad? I know mine isnt faulty. Has anyone else had this experience with their SAE 2200? I thought all this time that SAE was supposed to have an American beefy sound. I'm really disappointed in it.
I wanted to like it so bad.
 
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Here's an analogy:

So there's this '59 Corvette. It gets driven hard from when it was purchased in the fall of '58 through 1975. Burnouts, street races, maybe some track time. Minimal to no maintenance, no scheduled oil changes, no tire rotations, no chassis lubes, no new air filters. Then it gets put away in the back of Grandpa's barn for 15 years. You buy it, then complain that it won't start, handles poorly, runs bad, and overall performs like a piece of ****.

And then post to a forum and ask why the car could possibly run poorly.

Electronic components have a MTBF (mean time between failures) just like everything else. They can start to leak DC, they can go out of spec, they can have increased noise. There are about 10,000 threads about restoring vintage stuff, I think it's probably time to tune up your old SAE... it's worth doing for that piece.
 
Ok so I called my local tech. He said the power caps can be replaced and the bias and DC offset can be reset and he can do it for me.

I hope this helps.

I was expecting way more thump from this amp. It was startling to me that 100wpc SAE would move less air than a 40watt cheap integrated.
 
By the way does anyone else have this SAE 2200 and how do they like the sound?

I've always heard of SAE, GAS etc... as having "American muscle" like a beefy sound.
So far the japanese stuff I have outshines it in every aspect. I would love to fall in love with this amp again.
 
Ive got a couple of SAEs, a Mark 31B, and a 2400L. They dont get tromped. Once yours gets some love, it wont get tromped either.
 
Alkeys said:
By the way does anyone else have this SAE 2200 and how do they like the sound?
Click to expand...

I have a recapped 2300. It sounds great. I've also owned a 2400. That was also a very good sounding amp. As mentioned above, your 2200 at its age needs a recapping and DC offset and bias check.
 
I repaired SAE 2200 2100 and others years ago. They are great amps. All it takes is one bad coupling cap to lose all your bass. I think you will like it after it's repaired.
 
I just got my 2200 back together. I got it broken. Never heard one. Recapped it and new drivers and outputs. A few cooked resisters and a small transistor. It sounds like candy. TIGHT bass control. Silent. Good imaging.
Steve
 
We used to use the 2200's for live sound applications, driving some JBL 2440 and 2441's (3" diaphragm compression drivers). We always thought the amps sounded smooth and clean.

I think that either;

there's something wrong with the amp, or

you have expectations about the amp sounding a certain way. You made a comment about how the SAE is a 100W amp and that it puts out less bass, etc. 100W and 40W are not that different in output volume capability. As far as bass is concerned, make sure you have your speakers wired in phase to each other. The bass output should be even. Not more or less than what is going into the amp. Yes filters can get old and dry out, but you'd hear thing like 120Hz modulated audio, premature clipping, etc.

If you really want to get rid of the SAE, I'll find it a good home (mine!)
 
Maybe it's just a sonic incompatibility issue.
A while ago, I bought an SAE Mark 1B preamp to drive my Technics SE-A5 power amp. Bringing it home i was very disappointed to find the sound thin, rough, and metallic. So i waited for a while and finally had the preamp completely recapped and restored. I was expecting miracles, but if indeed I could hear some major changes in the sound - cleaner treble, more silence, more details and clarity - the sound was still thin and metallic. Out went the SAE and i bought another second hand preamp - a belgian unit from the eighties, from the Korn&Macway brand - a pretty rare and high-end unit wich sounds great with the technics power amp.

But today, the KM preamp died, triggering the house fuse out and all, BAM!!!
So in order to be able to listen music, I connected the SAE preamp again but this time with an SAE power amp (in fact the power amp section of the 3031integrated, that last being in fact a 3100power amp with some preamp attached to it, but the preamp section of mine is dead).

To my surprise, it sounds great, surpassing the technics + KM combo. so there's one thing one should never forget in audio: synergy. What "should work" on paper doesnt always work in real, and it's wse to alays hear a component WITH YOUR OWN STUFF before you buy it. And it's wise not to judge too quickly... your SAE amp might need a recap, for sure, but maybe all it needs is a different preamp...
 
I also have 2 sae and a sae 3100 and a sae 2500 monster power amp it probably needs work (yours) but when it gets repaired you will love it.
 
Klascala said:
Maybe it's just a sonic incompatibility issue.
A while ago, I bought an SAE Mark 1B preamp to drive my Technics SE-A5 power amp. Bringing it home i was very disappointed to find the sound thin, rough, and metallic. So i waited for a while and finally had the preamp completely recapped and restored. I was expecting miracles, but if indeed I could hear some major changes in the sound - cleaner treble, more silence, more details and clarity - the sound was still thin and metallic. Out went the SAE and i bought another second hand preamp - a belgian unit from the eighties, from the Korn&Macway brand - a pretty rare and high-end unit wich sounds great with the technics power amp.

But today, the KM preamp died, triggering the house fuse out and all, BAM!!!
So in order to be able to listen music, I connected the SAE preamp again but this time with an SAE power amp (in fact the power amp section of the 3031integrated, that last being in fact a 3100power amp with some preamp attached to it, but the preamp section of mine is dead).

To my surprise, it sounds great, surpassing the technics + KM combo. so there's one thing one should never forget in audio: synergy. What "should work" on paper doesnt always work in real, and it's wse to alays hear a component WITH YOUR OWN STUFF before you buy it. And it's wise not to judge too quickly... your SAE amp might need a recap, for sure, but maybe all it needs is a different preamp...
Click to expand...

Synergy = impedance matching
 
I have an Sae 3100 power amp and an advent 300 connected to it and it sounds great. Are you using the pre out /main Jack's on your preamp or a record out? Preamplifier out uses everything bass,treble,loudness going in to the power amp, I have also had in the past the sae 2200 which is 100 watts per channel and I have also the sae 2500 power amp at 400 watts per channel.I cannot think of any preamp that would screw up the sound that much even with bad caps.
 
All the SAE I’ve ever gotten my hands on needed some serious love.

I rebuilt one amp significantly and she rocks.

I think they pushed the parts to the limits and age took its toll.

Worth rebuilding for sure.
 
While I read about your problem, I'm thinking if you are feeding the SAE with enough signal level. Happened to me, a Crown DC-300 sounding thinner than my mid-fi Philips with 20WPC. But the DC-300 needed much higher signal to reach the maximum power.

So, even if many old units need recapping and so, I'd check the specs, specially input sensitivity in the SAE, and output level of your preamp.
 
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