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WHy not use Center Channel speakers for stereo?

1tumbleweed said:
Let's put it this way:
Have you ever seen a speaker marketed as an LCR that wasn't an MTM?
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Using the actual "LCR" acronym with not a single MTM involved? I'm not sure. Certainly a whole lot of packages with TM 2-ways and then a sideways MTM for the center marketed as LCR, though. Edit: oh, and if anyone thinks that means it actually shouldn't be called "LCR" because you can't swap the center for one of the LR, I'm with you, but whatever.

Lots of pro-oriented surround packages have LCR speakers that aren't MTM, but I don't know if you'd find any actually labeled "LCR". I suppose they know you know what you're looking at. Example: http://www.mksoundsystem.com/home-products/150-series/
 
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Well I know the OP was about using two Center Channel Specific speakers as a "Stereo Pair", but I did the opposite. After being really disappointed in the sound quality from a B&W CMC speaker, I tried a pair of KEF 103.2's tied together on the center channel and have never looked back.

The mid-range and vocal capability of a "near field monitor" like the 103.2's is really what does the trick. You could call this an MTTM configuration. Now I know some may say that the "lobbing" of the two tweeters together like this would degrade the sound, but I have noticed NO impact to the vocal quality and it sounds way more dynamic than the B&W. Then again, I do have a narrow room, so I can't say how this would work in a wider environment.

Through Audyssy I limited the bass to 80Hz on the center channel to prevent "boominess". The quality of the KEF's is pretty damn good for vocal presentation so it works for me. YMMV! :thmbsp:

IMG_6624w.jpg
 
SimplySound said:
Well I know the OP was about using two Center Channel Specific speakers as a "Stereo Pair", but I did the opposite. After being really disappointed in the sound quality from a B&W CMC speaker, I tried a pair of KEF 103.2's tied together on the center channel and have never looked back.

The mid-range and vocal capability of a "near field monitor" like the 103.2's is really what does the trick. You could call this an MTTM configuration. Now I know some may say that the "lobbing" of the two tweeters together like this would degrade the sound, but I have noticed NO impact to the vocal quality and it sounds way more dynamic than the B&W. Then again, I do have a narrow room, so I can't say how this would work in a wider environment.

Through Audyssy I limited the bass to 80Hz on the center channel to prevent "boominess". The quality of the KEF's is pretty damn good for vocal presentation so it works for me. YMMV! :thmbsp:

IMG_6624w.jpg
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I think you should get two more of your mains and put them in place of the KEF's!

'Might have to enlarge the shelf a bit...



A non-MTM LCR setup:

FrontLCR.jpg
 
Holy INITIALS> Mine aren't even listed:scratch2: My B&W 805 Matrix is an HTM and a pair of them sound great as a stereo pair. My L&R are B&W 803 Matrix and the three work very well together.
I'm tempted to try my B&W 801 Matrix as my L&Rs then I could disconnect my Veledyne 10" sub woofer that doesn't do anything except shake my Ansel Adams prints off the walls. I don't know if my sub has initials or not but it's PFG!
 
SimplySound said:
WOW... nice setup there Rob... that looks like it provides some "Dynamic Rendition"!

Are those DIY or what? :scratch2: If you did build them, nice job! :thmbsp:
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Those are home-brew, but not mine.
Picture was "borrowed" from the interwebs :)
 
Disclaimer 1. I despise home theater multi speaker setups, as they almost always are sub-standard.

That being said, back when I did have a HT setup, (7.1 system before Dolby Digital or DTS), I used a pair of identical speakers for center channels, (on each side of television). They were NOT center channel speakers, as they(center) are voiced to emphasize midrange human voices, and actually usually sound really lousy for music. Ideally, All speakers in a HT should be the exact same, or else as sounds 'pan' or echoes are heard, the timbre changes, which ****s up the psychoacoustics. IF you can't do that, the main and center speakers at least MUST be identical.

The speakers also have to be time/distance aligned, db matched, etc etc etc.

Pretty hard to do unless you build a room around the speakers.

Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, a Good two way system will do everything better then a mediocre surround system.
YMMV, as always.
jaz
 
#1) i'm not debating whether surround sound is better than stereo.

#2) my question, which seems to be hotly debatable in itself, is whether center channel speakers can be a "bargain" stereo setup if bought in pairs.

#3) the thought that centers are "voiced" differently than the L/R goes against the philosophy that the speakers should be "matched" doesn't it?

#4) Back to the topic:
For example, I found a Polk CS400 center channel listed for $50 locally. Looks like a nicer center, and retailed for $450 in 2000. I can almost guarantee a comparable stereo pair from that vintage, retailing for $900 for the pair, will resell for more than $100 on Craigslist. Yes, no, indifferent?
 
baco99 said:
#1) ..

#3) the thought that centers are "voiced" differently than the L/R goes against the philosophy that the speakers should be "matched" doesn't it?

...
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Yes, it does, but Yes, they are. (different) At least the last time I A/B'd speakers, they were. The Center Channel doesn't get nearly as much low frequency material, so the center channel speakers aren't designed to reproduce those 'low' frequencies as well.

Again, In my experience, Center Channel speakers even if you found a pair would not be a good substitute for a pair of 'normal' speakers by the same manufacturer.

Caveat; there are exceptions, The NHT based surround system I had (and still have 4/5ths of) used a single 1.1 as the center channel, it was the same speaker as the R/L speakers. But, the Infinity Kappa center Channel I had that were supposed to be a match for my Kappa 7.1's had a totally different 'voice' then the kappa 7.1s, and I ended up using a single Kappa 6.1 as center channel, as it was much closer tonally to the 7.1's, yet still small enough to fit.

Some people never seem to notice the tonal difference, but it's clear as day to me, at least. My friend had a high end Energy system, with the matching Energy Center Channel, and although it appeared to be using the same exact drivers as the L/R, it was totally different, nasally, and boxy sounding. (To me, he never could hear any difference)


P.S.
I find Magnepan's new ht design very interesting, using 3 speakers to reproduce the center channel properly, I'd love to hear it, but don't have any 'in's at the Mandalay Bay where they are installed in the luxury suites.
 
After reading some of the posts here, I think we can use a Center channel Speaker for Stereo use with a reasonable degree of success. Center Channel speakers are typically more expensive than one Reg speaker New so I really don't see the point with them. That said, I still feel better using a Proper Stereo Speaker, or LCR Speakers for my Mains. I think using a Reg Speaker for the Center however may not be as effective, so for me I'll stick with either a Dedicated Center or LCR Type speaker for that function.

IMO the Ideal Center Channel Speaker should be capable of getting down to aprox 60 - 70 hz @ -3 db so we cover every freq down to the the 80 hz of the Sub. At that point Bass becomes omnidirectional. Sometimes 2 x 4" woofers like in my PSB Alpha's get the job done (70 hz @ -3 db). I found there is plenty of Bass in the center channel. Also with some programs, it is the primary source of sound for 75% of the sound, so we should make every effort to get it right, and timbre matched to the front L & R Speakers, Idealy all 5 - 7 speakers should be timbre matched.
 
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jazzmans said:
The Center Channel doesn't get nearly as much low frequency material, so the center channel speakers aren't designed to reproduce those 'low' frequencies as well.
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i think you're thinking of older ProLogic recordings. In those recordings, the center channel received very little information. but with today's decoding, especially DolbyTrueHD and other HD formats, the center channel gets WAY more information, of all freq's, than the R or L. I'd bet that if measured the R/L Rear get more info than the R/L Front in many cases. With the center being the "anchor" of the soundstage.
 
Hi,
i´m sound designer and i work on films, so we mix them in dolby mix studios.

The LCR speakers are the same speaker, the point is that they are placed rear the screen, so the center channel can be big, and is not need to place it over or under a led monitor (this is why they are lonitudinals).

The only way i think is usefull to have a center channel is if you are listening some ¨program¨that needs this center channel (5.1 films where dialogs, some %ambiences room tones and some %music come from).
Is true too that if you are using a 42 inch led, you can listen films trough a stereo pair without problems, because you can find the ¨phantom¨center channel, with bigger screens you start to hear a hole in the middle of the image...

Some time ago i was thinging to buy a KLH23 as a center channel, cause i have a stereo pair, but imagine the volume that can it occupes, and to place it horizontaly in the floor is not a good idea...

Ja!
 
baco99 said:
i think you're thinking of older ProLogic recordings. In those recordings, the center channel received very little information. but with today's decoding, especially DolbyTrueHD and other HD formats, the center channel gets WAY more information, of all freq's, than the R or L. I'd bet that if measured the R/L Rear get more info than the R/L Front in many cases. With the center being the "anchor" of the soundstage.
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You are correct, I haven't looked at or listened to any surround systems in ten years, except passing in friends houses. So take that for what it is.
 
having used a Infinity with polydome mid. it matches with my cv's/ wich are huge they keep up with the dynamics and do the voices very well......but they do better with a sub, try a subwoofer with your center to keep up wioth the mains. unless you use small speakers as your mains now you are missing out...ht wont do well with small speakers no matter how you cut it...just my experience...
 
I've got two Boston Acoustic A-100s as my HT mains. Have an A-60 hooked up as center, but I've come to run HT in stereo mode, with an equalizer in the loop set to emphasize the mids. Maximum clarity of dialog across wide dynamic range is achieved. Have sacrificed surrounds, and don't miss 'em.

Do have a big sub in use, though....
 
leesonic said:
I had a Radio Shack center channel with the linoleum (<- look what my spellcheck did) tweeters. I always wanted to get another one and try them as stereo speakers. There might have been an issue though with the tweeters, I imagine they might need to be rotated in order to keep the correct listening plane.

Lee.
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Wow, that's funny.

"........now with Linoleum tweeters for that kitchen floor sound!"
And yes, they're designed for horizontal plain use.
 
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