Will Bi-amping improve SQ on low SPL ?

[Sandstrom]

Agree x2.


Agree w/this ^^^^ too,,,QFT for sure...

And I tend to disagree it cant be done w/low sensitivity speakers,as I'm sure it can,just see above comment.

Heck The Canton GL-260 I'm listening to right now dont even have a listed sensitivity spec I can find anywhere,and they sound great @ low SPL.
At best I'd say they're maybe 90db,so definitely not what most would consider to be high sensitivity speakers,ask me odds are they're < 90db.
That excellent SQ @ low SPL's largely due to the NAD 106 preamp using it's XLR outs to feed an EV 7100 power amp.
The background noise (or I should say the lack there-of) of this rig is a bottomless pit of blackness.

And clean sources are important part too IMO,I feed that rig from my PC via a Parasound D/AC-1000,and what a sweet sounding DAC that is.

So really it's all about the rig as a whole if you ask me.
Some rigs just do low SPL's waaayyy better than others do.

JMO ~ FWIW

Bret P.

Completely agree, I just think it is easier to do with higher sensitivity speakers, but as you say, not impossible with lower sensitivity ones using carefully chosen components.

 

[62caddy]

Ever heard of Google? Do any research yourself?

Click here for Richard Vandersteen's answer found in his FAQs. Use CTRL-F on page to locate quickly with text "bi-wiring". Some text from the explanation:

"The benefits of bi-wiring are most obvious in the midrange and treble. The low-current signal to the midrange and tweeter drivers does not have to travel on the same wire as the high-current woofer signal. The field fluctuations and signal regeneration of the high-current low-frequencies are prevented from distorting or masking the low-current high-frequencies. The back EMF (Electro-Mechanical Force) from the large woofer cannot affect the small-signal upper frequencies since they do not share the same wires.

The effects of bi-wiring are not subtle. The improvements are large enough that a bi-wire set of moderately priced cable will usually sound better than a single run of more expensive cable."

...in the opinion of one camp...and highly debatable for a host of reasons.

Since you have twice missed my question, I will repeat it again: Is the designer of that speaker advocating passive bi amplification (full range signal being sent to the factory crossover) or true bi-amplification with an active crossover network? (Factory crossover NOT used).

 

[E-Stat]

...in the opinion of one camp...and highly debatable for a host of reasons.

I'll repeat: dozens of camps. Including the one in your moniker.

..Since you have twice missed my question, I will repeat it again: Is the designer of that speaker advocating passive bi amplification (full range signal being sent to the factory crossover) or true bi-amplification with an active crossover network? (Factory crossover NOT used).

Follow the link I provided in post # 8 for the answer found before you asked!

 

[qguy]

I sent an email to Car Marchisotto, the designer of my speakers, the Acarian Alon IV and now president/CEO of NOLA speakers.

Will removing the internal crossover and placing them externally have a benefit ?
Carl's response was ->Removing the crossover will improve low level resolution

Will passive bi-amping, one amp for the highs/mids and a separate amp for woofers provide a benefit (sound quality) aside from greater SPL ?
Carl's response -> Passive Bi Amping will usually degrade sound quality

 

[62caddy]

[

I sent an email to Car Marchisotto, the designer of my speakers, the Acarian Alon IV and now president/CEO of NOLA speakers.

Will removing the internal crossover and placing them externally have a benefit ?
Carl's response was ->Removing the crossover will improve low level resolution

Will passive bi-amping, one amp for the highs/mids and a separate amp for woofers provide a benefit (sound quality) aside from greater SPL ?
Carl's response -> Passive Bi Amping will usually degrade sound quality

Scenario 1 - Passive. (factory crossover used)

Scenario 2 - Active. (powered crossover used between preamp and power amplifiers; factory crossover is not used)

 

[House de Kris]

So qguy, what have you decided to do on this matter? Are you going to try passive bi-amping as the manufacturer suggests will degrade sound, or what? If you've got the equipment on hand, I'd say anything is worth an experiment. Perhaps it is just me, but I'd me more inclined to believe my own personal experiences than believe what others claim. Just curious.

 

[qguy]

I actually tried passive bi-amping and it did not do any wonders in the past. My take was that i was just not using quality amp (Parasound and a Pioneer Receiver 1250 power amp section)

I will in the future remove the crossovers and move it externally

So qguy, what have you decided to do on this matter? Are you going to try passive bi-amping as the manufacturer suggests will degrade sound, or what? If you've got the equipment on hand, I'd say anything is worth an experiment. Perhaps it is just me, but I'd me more inclined to believe my own personal experiences than believe what others claim. Just curious.

 

[62caddy]

I actually tried passive bi-amping and it did not do any wonders in the past.

I will in the future remove the crossovers and move it externally

I would think very carefully before going that route which requires considerable expertise. The factory crossover network has been specifically optimized to the acoustic characteristics of the drivers and the enclosure for the best possible response. I sincerely doubt this is going to be improved upon and carries every possibility of doing more harm than good.

 

[mhardy6647]

https://www.minidsp.com/

 

[House de Kris]

I would think very carefully before going that route which requires considerable expertise. The factory crossover network has been specifically optimized to the acoustic characteristics of the drivers and the enclosure for the best possible response. I sincerely doubt this is going to be improved upon and carries every possibility of doing more harm than good.

If all qguy is going to do is to remove the passive crossover and place it in a box external to the speaker and not bi-amp, wouldn't the optimized crossover network still function purdy durn close to how originally conceived by the designer? As in, he's not proposing to redesign the crossover, just move it outside the speaker box. Plus, Carl has already suggested that removing the crossover will improve low level resolution.

 

[62caddy]

If all qguy is going to do is to remove the passive crossover and place it in a box external to the speaker and not bi-amp, wouldn't the optimized crossover network still function purdy durn close to how originally conceived by the designer? As in, he's not proposing to redesign the crossover, just move it outside the speaker box. Plus, Carl has already suggested that removing the crossover will improve low level resolution.

As far as I can tell, the OP's speaker was originally designed with the [passive] crossover as a separate unit and is not contained within the speaker enclosure itself. The making of amplifier connections directly at the speaker itself would therefore result in the immediate destruction of the HF drivers if they were to receive the normal full output power and frequency range of an amplifier whose input signal had not been specifically calibrated to the specific driver's power handling capability & frequency range.

 

[qguy]

The crossovers are internally located, I know there is a version of the Alon IV where the crossovers are located externally. I would only be moving the crossovers externally. No other changes will be done.

 

[62caddy]

The crossovers are internally located, I know there is a version of the Alon IV where the crossovers are located externally. I would only be moving the crossovers externally. No other changes will be done.

If you would still be using the original crossovers, what would be the point of physically removing them to the exterior of the cabinets?

 

[qguy]

If you would still be using the original crossovers, what would be the point of physically removing them to the exterior of the cabinets?

I sent an email to Car Marchisotto, the designer of my speakers, the Acarian Alon IV and now president/CEO of NOLA speakers.

Will removing the internal crossover and placing them externally have a benefit ?
Carl's response was ->Removing the crossover will improve low level resolution

Will passive bi-amping, one amp for the highs/mids and a separate amp for woofers provide a benefit (sound quality) aside from greater SPL ?
Carl's response -> Passive Bi Amping will usually degrade sound quality

 

[62caddy]

Respectfully, I don't buy that at all and doing so will involve considerable butchery to the speakers as well as harming their value.

I would just forget about it - but that's your decision.

 

[TomB19]

I'm pretty sure carl Marchisotto was talking about removal of the network filter from the signal path, not just physically removing it from the speaker but leaving it in the signal path.

 

[sqlsavior]

If you like your speakers and are going to keep them, I would look for SQ improvements upstream, not bi-amping. Just my 2 cents.

 

[62caddy]

I'm pretty sure carl Marchisotto was talking about removal of the network filter from the signal path, not just physically removing it from the speaker but leaving it in the signal path.

Well the designer does specifically mention of the virtues (in his view) of the crossover not being mounted inside the speaker enclosure in the link provided.

 

[Grenadeslio]

Most amatuer DIY active biamping frucks up the works more often than not. As already mentioned, tons of engineering went into voicing your speakers. The odds your ripping out the correct crossovers, putting an active one inline and playing around with the settings will improve on the SQ is nil to none.

Unless you have the same level of equipment and expertise for R&D then passive is the safest bet.

Don't think there won't be an improvement, removing the tweeters and mids from the same power supply and filtration etc as the woofers definitely improves soundstaging, decay, and the other nuances that set great apart from stupendous.

 

[ev13wt]

Google miniDSP.
Set it up exactly like the original x-overs, slopes and all...

Use the same amp model for all. My opinion. If you want to all go there