Wow & Flutter on Revox B77

simoncs

New Member
I am currently refurbishing a Revox B77 and I have noticed that there seems to be some Wow & Flutter especially on sustained piano and oboe. I have cleaned the heads and all the tape path, but I am not sure where too look next. Any suggestions or pointers would be most welcome.

Simoncs
 
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No wonder that you mostly notice it on piano, it is the most sensitive instrument to W&F. Personally I hear it when the value reaches 0.1%, but the threshold varies from person to person. The usual suspects are the condition of the pinch roller, the pressure of the pinch roller (it has to be 1.3 kg +/- 100 g, and experience taught me that this is critical), the clealiness of the capstan (any crud on it?). It may also be caused by dragging brakes (sometimes the brakes remain very slightly engaged during play), or (quite often) by decaying tape tape, especially (but not only) if it sheds oxide on the tape transport, so you should make your tests with fresh tape.As a general rule, check that the whole tape transport is free from crud and debris before and after every tape when you make tests.

Since you said that you are refurbishing your machine, I assume that you have lubricated the capstan motor shaft with PDP65. If not, that may possibly be a cause too_One other idea is that maybe it a shim is missing on the input tape guide (or output, if the stationary output guide has been replaced by a ball bearing), so that the tape gets pinched and resists traction enough to cause irregular speed - I have seen it happen on occasions. Also, make sure that the spring-loaded guide pin located on the left of the heads moves freely: if jammed it might cause speed fluctuations when the tape reaches the end (case seen on the pneumatically damped guide pin of a PR99)..
 
No wonder that you mostly notice it on piano, it is the most sensitive instrument to W&F. Personally I hear it when the value reaches 0.1%, but the threshold varies from person to person. The usual suspects are the condition of the pinch roller, the pressure of the pinch roller (it has to be 1.3 kg +/- 100 g, and experience taught me that this is critical), the clealiness of the capstan (any crud on it?). It may also be caused by dragging brakes (sometimes the brakes remain very slightly engaged during play), or (quite often) by decaying tape tape, especially (but not only) if it sheds oxide on the tape transport, so you should make your tests with fresh tape.As a general rule, check that the whole tape transport is free from crud and debris before and after every tape when you make tests.

Since you said that you are refurbishing your machine, I assume that you have lubricated the capstan motor shaft with PDP65. If not, that may possibly be a cause too_One other idea is that maybe it a shim is missing on the input tape guide (or output, if the stationary output guide has been replaced by a ball bearing), so that the tape gets pinched and resists traction enough to cause irregular speed - I have seen it happen on occasions. Also, make sure that the spring-loaded guide pin located on the left of the heads moves freely: if jammed it might cause speed fluctuations when the tape reaches the end (case seen on the pneumatically damped guide pin of a PR99)..
Another thing to check when you hear W&F on these decks is whether the capstan itself has been polished smooth by use. Overly smooth capstans can be given a new life with a bit of blasting.
 
What is the playback speed of the player, Revox made several versions? They’re usually two speeds. Have you checked the reel size function? If I remember correctly, it just switches in a different resistor. Check reel tension before head lock and after capstan. How does the head itself look? Wear causes head grooves which start to lift the tape from the head gap. Do you have any play in the capstan?
 
Head grooving can cause all kinds of problems indeed - although the fluctuating highs are much more noticeable than the elevated W&F so it's not what people usually complain about in this case - but the Revox heads are milled to prevent grooving so they cannot cause this, unless badly misadjusted.

I have consistently measured that the reel diameter switch does not have a significant effect on W&F. However I did find that with small reels (less than 5") wow can become very noticeable. The user manual said to avoid reels smaller than 7".

You have a good point with the speed. The usual Revox were 9,5 / 19 cm/s, but there were also slow-speed versions for logging, which are sometimes plentiful on the auction sites. Those can have very high wow & flutter. This is not a problem for their intended application, but it can be a nuisance when you try to listen to music on them. Personally I'd be more annoyed by the muffled sound and the tape hiss, but others may not react like me.
 
On my B-77's I had roller bearings on either side of the head stack. I took out the class 3 bearings and put in class 5 or 7 and added one of those very thin brass spacer washers so Ampex tape with sticiky onset would glide easily when dubbed to CD. You should only have one bearing in the stack and should it be lubed. You should pull the motor fly wheel and throughly clean the capstan bushing and re-lubricate and remove the rear motor bearing and heat STP to about 120 degrees and soak the bearing for an 1/2 hour so after using penetrating cleaner to remove the old oil from the motor bearing. Back in the old days we used carburetor cleaner, but I doubt you can find that anymore. Wear gloves if you do. If any of the bearings make a noise after re-lubing, try again. If still not successful go buy new bearings. Take the old ones so the supply house can get the right size they are very common in class 3 not so much in 7.,
 
On my B-77's I had roller bearings on either side of the head stack. I took out the class 3 bearings and put in class 5 or 7 and added one of those very thin brass spacer washers so Ampex tape with sticiky onset would glide easily when dubbed to CD. You should only have one bearing in the stack and should it be lubed.
The correct replacement bearing is 626-ZZ, from a good make (SKF is the standard choice - no affiliation, just experience). It is waterproof so it cannot be lubed, you have to change it, but since it is cheap (3.90 € a piece) and easy to find this is not a problem. As for the shims, there is normally a 0.15 mm shim on each side of the bearing, plus a shim or two (0.3 mm total thickness if memory serves) underneath the lower cup. Adding shims gives more leeway for badly slit tapes, but it increases phase fluctuation very noticeably so I only do it when needed and then remove the extra shims for normal use.

The right side is normally a 6.3 mm stationary spacer and you don't need shims in this case. I too have replaced it by a 626-ZZ bearing and shims, in order to be more gentle on the old tapes. It does not improve W&F though, whatever happens downstream the capstan has a negligible effect on this.

You should pull the motor fly wheel and throughly clean the capstan bushing and re-lubricate and remove the rear motor bearing and heat STP to about 120 degrees and soak the bearing for an 1/2 hour so after using penetrating cleaner to remove the old oil from the motor bearing.
This is rather extreme, especially considering the precision required to keep the flutter low with this motor. I only pull it apart as a last resort. The recommended lubrication procedure is to just add a few drops of Isoflex PDP 65 in the space between the capstan shaft and the plastic cap, in order to refill the felt ring underneath which is the oil reservoir of the motor, and then let the latter run for a few hours, preferrably with the deck in horizontal position. It is enough to keep the capstan motor lubricated. Whatever you do, make sure to use only PDP 65: mixing oils in sintered bearings always causes problems. PDP 65 is not cheap, but it is plentiful on a well-known auction site and 3 ml is a lifetime supply for a single Revox, so penny-pinching is a bad policy here. It is only if the motor does not spin freely after this procedure that you should consider opening it, but then, if it is still not free after cleaning and lubrication, there is not much you can do apart from changing the whole motor: I don't think spare parts are still available.

BTW Simoncs: if you do the mechanical overhaul of your B77, it is a good idea to replace the ball bearings of the spooling motors. The procedure is a little involved, and it will probably not change W&F a bit, but it will probably improve the noise and the torque. The correct type is 608 flangeless, but I and others have used 608-ZZ with no inconvenience - although the flanges add a little friction and are unneeded since these motors are not open to dust. Just be aware that these motors can spin really fast so quality is mandatory- the legend goes that Studer/Revox hand-picked them, I don't know if this is true but experience shows that good current models from eg. SKF work well. You really need TOTL there, and it's not much more expensive.
 
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