Yamaha CR-1020 + SVS Sub Recommendations

T

TexasEZ

New Member
Hey AK gang, yes another one of these threads but this is the last one, I promise. This is my first stereo system and I'm one to get the correct/best setup done the first time, so looking for your suggestions.

CR-1020 + SVS SB-1000 Pro connection options, plus one curveball.

What would be the advantages/disadvantages using the following setups:

Using line-level:
1. Pre-out to sub RCA in, then sub RCA out to main-in
2. Pre-out using Y-splitters with one chain back into main-in and the other into sub RCA in

Using speaker-level:
1. Run speakers + sub on channel A
2. Run speakers on A and sub on B (can turn on/off sub with receivers speaker selector which is nice but can always just switch off the sub...)

A note on the speaker-level setup, I believe the CR-1020's speakers run in parallel but unsure if using just channel A is superior than A+B in regards to sound quality. I believe it won't make a difference but would appreciate a confirmation.

The area I'm most concerned and not well educated is the crossovers. I'm not sure if it's best to run the line-in method so I can utilize the subs crossover and offload those sub frequencies from the speakers or if it's worthwhile to continue using the speakers full range.

Curveball: I'd also be connecting a Yamaha YSP-5600 sound bar using it's subwoofer out monaural connection to the sub's LFE in. If I use the speaker-level setup for the receiver, I can easily toggle between the sound bar and receiver for which unit gets the bass, which is a huge pro BUT if the stereo's audio quality is at all degraded I would rather manually switch between the LFE and RCA for which unit is getting the bass. My top priority isn't necessarily ease of use but audio quality (isn't that what we're chasing?).

Here are pictures of the sub's rear panel, the sound bar's rear panel, and the CR-1020's ins/outs and speaker connections, for reference. The CR-1020's pictures aren't great but I think most importantly the A+B channel states a pair of 8-16 ohm speakers.

https://i.imgur.com/YAbg9ys.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/xcZp8YD.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/gNeGDvN.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/jontJju.jpg

Lastly, my speakers are Wharfedale 4.3s, which have dual binding posts... one for bass (lowers) and the other for high frequencies (uppers). Any advantages to take here for the setups above? I currently use the jumper for both posts and are tapped into the lower posts.

Thank you in advanced and looking forward to being educated!

EZ
 
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I'd use the line level. But remember the sub AC power has to be on the same circuit breaker as the high fi and TV. Other wise ground loops might happen causing annoying 60/120 HZ hum. If that happens you will need an isolation box from Jensen transformers. OH! there is that dreaded word the imperfect isolation transformer. Or there may be some electronic isolation boxes. I am sure there are. I wish you good luck. Just stay away from tube stuff unless you have the coin and want to be changing tubes to get the perfect sound you think you are after.
 
I don't believe the SVS subwoofer includes a high-pass filter. If not, your main speakers will get a full range signal regardless of how the sub is connected or configured.

You will use the subwoofer's low pass filter and its volume control (and its DSP functions) to achieve the best blend with the mains and with your room.

The speaker terminals in your Yamaha are wired in parallel. Connecting mains to A and sub to B is electrically the same as connecting all to A, or all to B, other than the existence of the switch in the A+B scenario. I like using A and B, so that I can easily switch between sub on and sub off....handy when dialing in the system.

Line level vs speaker level is endlessly debated. Both work fine. I use speaker level in two of my systems (each with a pair of subs), and line level in my other system that utilizes subwoofers.

With that Yamaha, you can simply leave the coupler switch in the ON position...no need to loop the preamp output back into its power amp section. Just use a pair of RCA interconnects from preamp out to the sub...done.

As for the dual terminals on your speakers...you can certainly try bi-wiring and come to your own conclusions. Most folks report little to no improvement. Any benefit will be regardless of subwoofer connections. However, the extra space required for the additional set of speaker wires may force you into line level connecting your sub (simply because the speaker terminals may not be large enough for two sets of speaker wires).

The subwoofer will have only a very negligible impact on the Yamaha, which can accommodate a 4 ohm load (for example, one pair of 4 ohm speakers, or two pairs of 8 ohm speakers). Let's say that you speakers are an 8 ohm load on the Yamaha. The subwoofer's input impedance is 10K ohms. The combined impedance is 7.99 ohms....pretty darned close to the same as without the subwoofer!

I know nothing about soundbars, but connecting two inputs into the subwoofer's amplifier at the same time doesn't seem like a good idea (electrically). Perhaps I'm not thinking about it correctly.
 
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Good luck with getting it right the first time. I don't know how you get it right by only knowing one 40+ y.o receiver. Getting darn good is more likely, but time may steer you in directions heretofore unknown. :D

Line in line out seems the least congested and the least taxing on the CR1020.
 
spark1 said:
I like using A and B, so that I can easily switch between sub on and sub off....handy when dialing in the system.
Click to expand...

This is how I had my CR-1020 set up when it was in the livingroom. The A channels were sent to the main speakers and B was sent to the "sub" (which in this case was just the bass module of my ancient Bose AM5s2). Now I've just got it running the AM5s2 (2 satellites/sub) here at my desk in a nearfield setup around the computer.

to OP: Good luck with your setup, once you get it dialed in, i'm sure you'll enjoy that Yamaha
 
Tiver said:
Good luck with getting it right the first time. I don't know how you get it right by only knowing one 40+ y.o receiver. Getting darn good is more likely, but time may steer you in directions heretofore unknown. :D

Line in line out seems the least congested and the least taxing on the CR1020.
Click to expand...

Effect on the 1020 is same either way.
 
twiiii said:
I'd use the line level. But remember the sub AC power has to be on the same circuit breaker as the high fi and TV. Other wise ground loops might happen causing annoying 60/120 HZ hum. If that happens you will need an isolation box from Jensen transformers. OH! there is that dreaded word the imperfect isolation transformer. Or there may be some electronic isolation boxes. I am sure there are. I wish you good luck. Just stay away from tube stuff unless you have the coin and want to be changing tubes to get the perfect sound you think you are after.
Click to expand...

Fortunately, my living room has a quad outlet on the media wall, which will house everything but the sub, but the outlet for the sub is on the same breaker. good to know, this was news to me!

spark1 said:
I don't believe the SVS subwoofer includes a high-pass filter. If not, your main speakers will get a full range signal regardless of how the sub is connected or configured.

You will use the subwoofer's low pass filter and its volume control (and its DSP functions) to achieve the best blend with the mains and with your room.

The speaker terminals in your Yamaha are wired in parallel. Connecting mains to A and sub to B is electrically the same as connecting all to A, or all to B, other than the existence of the switch in the A+B scenario. I like using A and B, so that I can easily switch between sub on and sub off....handy when dialing in the system.

Line level vs speaker level is endlessly debated. Both work fine. I use speaker level in two of my systems (each with a pair of subs), and line level in my other system that utilizes subwoofers.

With that Yamaha, you can simply leave the coupler switch in the ON position...no need to loop the preamp output back into its power amp section. Just use a pair of RCA interconnects from preamp out to the sub...done.

As for the dual terminals on your speakers...you can certainly try bi-wiring and come to your own conclusions. Most folks report little to no improvement. Any benefit will be regardless of subwoofer connections. However, the extra space required for the additional set of speaker wires may force you into line level connecting your sub (simply because the speaker terminals may not be large enough for two sets of speaker wires).

The subwoofer will have only a very negligible impact on the Yamaha, which can accommodate a 4 ohm load (for example, one pair of 4 ohm speakers, or two pairs of 8 ohm speakers). Let's say that you speakers are an 8 ohm load on the Yamaha. The subwoofer's input impedance is 10K ohms. The combined impedance is 7.99 ohms....pretty darned close to the same as without the subwoofer!

I know nothing about soundbars, but connecting two inputs into the subwoofer's amplifier at the same time doesn't seem like a good idea (electrically). Perhaps I'm not thinking about it correctly.
Click to expand...

thanks, spark1 for the detailed response. much appreciated!

good point on the high-pass filter, which this sub does not have. for this type of setup, offloading the low frequencies from the mains, require both a low and high filter? also, forgot about the coupler switch already making that connection internally, which is pretty cool.

since there is no advantage using line level, i'm going to continue with the A+B speaker level for the stereo and LFE line in level for the sound bar, which I believe should not be an issue as I won't be running each at the same time (although if I do, I can remove the LFE much quicker). I actually used my current Bose sound bar + sub AND the Yamaha last Sunday via optical out from the TV to a optical splitter and it was awesome for watching Sunday football.

Tiver said:
Good luck with getting it right the first time. I don't know how you get it right by only knowing one 40+ y.o receiver. Getting darn good is more likely, but time may steer you in directions heretofore unknown. :D

Line in line out seems the least congested and the least taxing on the CR1020.
Click to expand...

Haha that comment was simply in regards to my line level vs, speaker level question, rather than the infinite combos of equipment :)

reydelaplaya said:
This is how I had my CR-1020 set up when it was in the livingroom. The A channels were sent to the main speakers and B was sent to the "sub" (which in this case was just the bass module of my ancient Bose AM5s2). Now I've just got it running the AM5s2 (2 satellites/sub) here at my desk in a nearfield setup around the computer.

to OP: Good luck with your setup, once you get it dialed in, i'm sure you'll enjoy that Yamaha
Click to expand...

this is the method i'm going to take! thanks for the comment
 
Yes, "offloading" the low frequencies from your mains requires a high pass filter.

And offloading both your amp and the speakers requires that the filter be between the amp and preamp..
 
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Fewer and fewer subs with a built-in high pass filter seem to be available, especially in the <$500 segment. I speculate that the manufacturer's primarily target home theater and combined music/video applications, in which an AVR will handle the high pass filtering.
 
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With pre out/main in, you could put Y cables on the L & R pre outs, run one leg of each to the sub, then put FMOD HPFs in the two other legs going back to main in. Just pick some FMODs that about where you want start rolling off the mains. Cost ya ~$25 for a pair of FMOD HPFs.
 
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spark1 said:
Fewer and fewer subs with a built-in high pass filter seem to be available, especially in the <$500 segment. I speculate that the manufacturer's primarily target home theater and combined music/video applications, in which the AVR will handle the high pass filtering.
Click to expand...

Have any sub recommendations with this type of crossover?

whoaru99 said:
With pre out/main in, you could put Y cables on the L & R pre outs, run one leg of each to the sub, then put FMOD HPFs in the two other legs going back to main in. Just pick some FMODs that about where you want start rolling off the mains. Cost ya ~$25 for a pair of FMOD HPFs.
Click to expand...

Have you utilized this setup before?
 
TexasEZ said:
Have you utilized this setup before?
Click to expand...

Nope. I have programmable/adjustable electronic crossovers where I want to do that stuff.

But, what was described is sound in theory and in practice if that is your implication.

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