Your thoughts on using analogue media to listen to digitally recorded music?

bluesky said:
I think people are confusing sound quality with feeling in your gut music.
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That's what I meant by "involving." Also referred to as musicality, more important than anything else. I've had plenty of exhilarating experiences with both formats, and lots of lps that were recorded from a digital source, although excellent sound quality isn't absolutely necessary as you've pointed out.

In the other thread my main point was that IMO there's so much to enjoy from both formats (I'm talking sound quality now again), but I don't believe one is clearly superior to another. I do think digital is going to be the clear winner of that debate in the not-to-distant future (musicality and all), but that's sort another thread. The important thing is that an lp recorded from a digital source is not necessarily less engaging and "musical" as a pure analog lp, IME. As usual, exceptions all over the place. I've been reveling in the possibilities of CDs and records in the last year, and as far as my music listening experiences go, things have never been better.

And now, completely off-topic: I am very happy with the 326, and if you're in the market for a "budget" (lol) integrated amp and don't need wall-shaking power (it's 50wpc), I would advise you to seriously consider it. If you need more power step up to the 375 (which I would if I had your budget and were in your position right now). AK Member Old Tech (Ron) just got one, and he seems to really like it. More on that in the modern day hi-fi forum.
 
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libertycaps said:
Per wikipedia the first digitally recorded lp was Ry Cooder-Bop 'til you Drop released in 1979. I stumbled across that nugget while doing some reading on this subject. By the early to mid-1980's digital recording/mixing was the new music industry standard.

Ironic because i started buying alot of records around 1983. No wonder i was so often disappointed with my purchases for years and years. I have much fewer disappointments now that i've become a more educated vinyl consumer. Of course, your results may vary....as they should. I don't have your ears/You don't have mine.
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I literally stumbled across Bop at a party. :D

Believe me your conceptual point is not lost on me.

As my buying has evolved over the years, my first new purchase would be a CD over an LP since LP obviously diminished in shelf space. So the topic here is generally a moot one. Chances are I would probably buy a CD unless as others have pointed out where specific earlier LP versions are reputably better. The thing is some of the CD titles I have bought in the past have been badly mastered only to be remastered again and again.

My buying habits now trend toward used because of budget or just trying to replace older damaged or warped LPs. Many pre 80s but also after. And depending on the title, I may go LP or CD depending on cost, availability and various reviews on which may be better.

I like to think it's more budget and finding a good copy, but it may very well be nostalgia in that I'm looking for the sound that I remembered when first hearing the LP. If the CD is better, no problem.
 
JonL said:
I've never heard a really good CD player. I do hope what you say is true. While I find that there's more than enough 25+ year old music to keep me occupied, I'd like to not shut myself off from current music and recordings the extent that I do.

That said, it doesn't explain why I don't particularly enjoy LPs made from digital source material unless it's in my head (which it may well be).

My CD player is certainly not as good as one could get for a reasonable (sub $1000) sum. My vinyl rig is better but probably still doesn't cross the threshold that some here would claim is required for a truly "good" vinyl rig. Still, I love the way my LPs sound.
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Could it at all be possible that your bias against digital wont allow you to enjoy a cd or a digital recording? I just find it hard to believe you never heard a good cd or that you cant find enjoyment in a digital based LP. If I were to come over with 10 albums you dont own and say a few or more were digital and some were not would you honestly be able to tell me what was what if you didnt see the info about recording?
I love both, both are better than eachother in some areas and both are challanged in others.
Ever demo a external DAC? I can send you one to try if you want to see what ya think.
 
chadnliz said:
Could it at all be possible that your bias against digital wont allow you to enjoy a cd or a digital recording?
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Yes, absolutely possible. I freely admit to my biases, though I hope I'd be able to overcome them. I've only got probably 100 cds or so, but believe me I wish they didn't just sit there occupying space.

chadnliz said:
I just find it hard to believe you never heard a good cd or that you cant find enjoyment in a digital based LP. If I were to come over with 10 albums you dont own and say a few or more were digital and some were not would you honestly be able to tell me what was what if you didnt see the info about recording?
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I've probably heard good CDs, I think it's likely my cd player that's the bigger problem. Regarding the digital based LPs... I doubt I could pick the digital from the all-analog with a great deal of consistency. Probably better than 50%, but much less than 100%. What I tend to find with digital recordings (LP or CD) is that after a few minutes I'm waiting for them to end instead of wishing they'd go on forever. With CDs I can give a vague general description of what I don't like. With digital LPs it's perhaps a little more subtle and probably not as universal. On the flip side of the coin, I've got one new LP release that was recorded on vintage analog gear, 100%. No digital anywhere. I think it sounds thin and unsatisfying. (James Hunter, The Hard Way.)

chadnliz said:
I love both, both are better than eachother in some areas and both are challanged in others.
Ever demo a external DAC? I can send you one to try if you want to see what ya think.
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I believe that what you say about CDs and LPs having their strengths and weaknesses is true, but I just haven't ever been satisfied with digital in my rig. Quite possibly (probably?) because I haven't invested the time or money in getting my digital front end up to par. I've not demoed an external DAC and would love to try one. I may well take you up on your offer. Let's talk off-line about it... I've got huge work commitments through June, maybe later in the summer? (And THANKS!)
 
I was stuck in LA for work last week with only my laptop for audio. I downloaded a song I'd heard on XM radio in the rental car. For whatever reason, this song coming out of the tinny, crappy, 2" speakers in my laptop, sourced from the iTunes store, sent chills down my spine. Kind of put everything about 'sound quality' in perspective for me. I in it for the music first, and I want to hear it as well as it can be heard..and for me that's vinyl, regardless of how it was recorded. But at the end of the day, I really could be happy with anything.
 
I prefer all analog if I'm going to play an LP. CD-sourced vinyl is almost pointless. But, hi-rez vinyl I can make an argument for (2002 Abkco Stones LPs, for example).

I feel better "knowing" an LP is 100 percent analog, but I seriously doubt I can tell the difference in some cases. I try not to let my OCD/geekiness get in the way of enjoying the tunes. So what if the Arctic Monkeys CDs are compressed? Beats the hell out of playing my MFSL "Aja" LP again.
 
JONL: "Quite possibly (probably?) because I haven't invested the time or money in getting my digital front end up to par. " :yes:

For me it eventually boiled down to convenience. It was just too much work to store and select and clean all my LP's (4000+). So I decided that CD's and lossless MP3's on a 1TB music server was the way to go. So I sold the LP's and TT's and cartridges and used the money to invest in a digital system (see my signature). And I could not be happier. The sound is just as good (to me) and a lot easier to maintain. :thmbsp:

I think Vinyl is more consistent in sound quality from LP to LP. I have some CD's and some MP3's that have poor sound quality- and others that are great. My system is not that high end (the Outlaw is actually a newer 2 channel analog receiver), but in the end it sounds great to me- and that's really what matters.
 
sosidge said:
Just wondering how people feel about using analogue media (ie vinyl) to listen to music that has been recorded or mastered digitally?

Personally speaking, if I know the music has been through a digital process already, then I may as well listen to it on CD. The analogue "magic" has gone. I wouldn't actively avoid a vinyl copy, but I wouldn't seek one out either.

For older recordings, I certainly prefer to listen on vinyl - as the recording was intended to be heard, usually - but only seek out reasonably priced copies. So for highly desirable stuff I'm back to CD again.

The problem with this approach is that it is rarely clear what the recording/mastering process was. I'll wager that most music produced since the mid-90s has been processed digitally somewhere along the line, and that most before the mid-80s was not. But there are exceptions, and aside from artists who are explicit about the recording process (Raconteurs for example), it's hard to know.
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Sometimes an analog media can soften out some of the hard edges of digital recording it’s not as perfect as the digital copy but at times it just sounds more organic and pleasing especially to those of us who grew up with analog tape and vinyl , unless excessive the surface noise is basically white noise that we don’t even really notice unless it’s excessive ! focusing on the warmer organic sounds ! As well as an analog listener may notice more the digital artifact or sharp almost sibilance sound that some digital music has but be totally oblivious to how there is little background noise ! It’s like comparing a very sharp digital photo to a great painting ! The digital is way more precise and accurate on the other hand the great painting is for more inspiring ! To each his own as for me I say why choose enjoy them both!
 
I hae some earl digital recordings where DGG released the recordings on LP and CD. THere is a difference for sure. Analog releases on LP they were still rolling off the bass around 60 to 50 HZ and the highs were smoother. THe biggest change waas the mics and the mix were totally different from the previous older analog recordings. So people comparing older all analog recordings on LP will hear big difference. Where if you have the LP's mastered from the more recent digital recordings the sound will be closer. together.
 
listening to digitial recordings on vinyl -just to hear the pops and scratches and the compression for vinyl, I dont get it, the CD versions sound better to me.
 
I don't know how you maintain your records, but I have no scratches that create extra surface noise thanks to carefully soring my records and fine line stylus shape. Pops can be reduced to a rare occasion with proper cleaning and storage. So enjoying vinyl just like a CD can be a very enjoyable experience. If the digital mastering engineers and the record producers had maintained their more artistic merit from the days of vinyl, we wouldn't being hearing all the complaints today. BUt the digital guys had a new toy to play with setting new sttandards for making a recording in the studio and forgetting the actual experience of a great performance in a great acoustic space. It drives me crazy when the solo piano has been recorded in a small studio space with artificial reverb and matched with an orchestra in another space with different reverb.

I also know that it can be attributed to the different mics and their placement relating to the piano and orchestra. I know its not easy but thats what separates the true artists from the tech crowd making recording in a studio and paying with all the knobs. Try what Mayorga did with recording jazz groups, big bands and full orchestra with a single tube stereo microphone sometime at Sheffield. That takes true artistry and talent. Mercury used just used three mics as did Telarc and Reference recordings most of the time. Some of the old RCA red seal and Coumbia recordings were very minimalistic in capturing great sound,too. Now days they almost put a mic on every instrument and concoct the sound in a mixing suite.
 
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I don't believe in 'analog magic', but I have experienced plenty of digital destruction. It's the mastering.
59volvo said:
listening to digitial recordings on vinyl -just to hear the pops and scratches and the compression for vinyl, I dont get it, the CD versions sound better to me.
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'Compression' for vinyl is pretty minor compared to the squashed and peak-limited digital of the loudness wars. Buying a vinyl copy is actually a good way to get around that problem, although I have seen similarly squashed vinyl recordings as well, but they are the exception. Another way is to check out the Loudness Wars database, and pursue an us-squashed, usually earlier-in-time mastering.
 
sosidge said:
Just wondering how people feel about using analogue media (ie vinyl) to listen to music that has been recorded or mastered digitally?

Personally speaking, if I know the music has been through a digital process already, then I may as well listen to it on CD. The analogue "magic" has gone. I wouldn't actively avoid a vinyl copy, but I wouldn't seek one out either.

For older recordings, I certainly prefer to listen on vinyl - as the recording was intended to be heard, usually - but only seek out reasonably priced copies. So for highly desirable stuff I'm back to CD again.

The problem with this approach is that it is rarely clear what the recording/mastering process was. I'll wager that most music produced since the mid-90s has been processed digitally somewhere along the line, and that most before the mid-80s was not. But there are exceptions, and aside from artists who are explicit about the recording process (Raconteurs for example), it's hard to know.
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Tidal sounds absolutely great on my RTRs, and it’s easy to make a mixtape. Do what makes you happy in life, enjoy the music. :thumbsup:
 
Its all analog when it hits your ears, how it got there is irrelevant as long as you like how it sounds when it gets there.

In this instance its the destination(your ears) and not the journey(recording/mastering/medium) that matters most.
 
At the DAC, even the best digital signal becomes an analog signal. What happens to it after that is the same as any other analog signal in a particular system. And speakers are an analog transducer, precisely because we don't hear in digital. As long as you're satisfied that what's coming out of them is a reasonably accurate translation of what went into making the signal that went into them, all is well.....
 
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