Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

Longtime lurker, first time poster on my own speaker projects. Time to jump in.

I had made prior attempts at CD designs, the first in the 80's and another later around the year 2000. I was looking for something more refined when in 2011 I discovered the incredible Zilch inspiring Flex Your PCD Mettle thread of discovery and interaction.

Wonderful stuff. Really a fantastic read through and through.

Anyway, back in 2013 after tons of reading I ultimately built a road-worthy set of Econowave HO (B&C DE250/QSC/3012HO) for use with my band and for weddings and special events. I've always despised being subjected to the horrible sound provided by the average DJ and have been happy to lend my system when needed. I use Bill Fillmaurice (BFM) horn subwoofers to augment the obvious bass deficiency of an otherwise excellent design. http://techtalk.parts-express.com/forum/tech-talk-forum/34467-flex-your-pcd-mettle/page7

Life moves on and priorities change, so I retired the BFM Tuba 30 pair and pulled from them a set of 3012LF drivers. (I still have a Titan 39 if needed that also uses but one 3012LF)

It got me to thinking...what would that original Econowave Deluxe that Zilch demoed with the Big Head Todd and the Monsters tune sound like? I have the woofers and would only need to change the crossover. Come to think if it, that makes sense because the enclosure at approximately 2.5 CF could be ported around 45-50 Hz negating the need for subs at all in typical rooms.

And so I changed out the crossover and woofer from Eminence 3012HO to the 3012LF driver. There's a photo of each below.

Of course, I did one first and spent time listening to differences between the two. The HO version was far more efficient, requiring me to move the balance control significantly toward the LF version side. I performed no measurements but noted the LF version seems overall better balanced, with less coloration in the 600-800 Hz range and a seemingly smoother top end. The downside seemed to be maybe a little less clarity in that region and above where that 3012HO really shines.

Anyway I've been listening happily to them since summer.

Part two next...

HO_vs_LF_crossover

HO_vs_LF_crossover

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Econowave_HO-LF_swapping

Econowave_HO-LF_swapping

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djnagle said:
That mac o wave has a great look to it.
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Thank you, I thought so too. My brother had bought the set along with a Sansui AU-9500 but I've just had them stored in their boxes. Once I got the idea and saw how well the QSC horn fit it was inevitable to make something I would use again.
 
djnagle said:
Great combination. I love the big Sansui gear and should be a great match.
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It was a great match when my brother had them even though the dealer did not sell him the required speaker equalizer. I remember visiting him and making tapes to take home as a teenager. I can't separate the Sansui now from the PSB Goldi, it's just such an exquisite combo - warm, natural and still detailed.

The Mac O Wave or whatever you all want to call it will live in the "cave".
 
Katalyst said:
Very nice fit on those. What woofer will be used?
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That's a good question! I'm planning on the Kappalite 3012HO. I am not ruling out the 3012LF either but that seems far less likely. At this point I'll have two cabinets with proper Z-axis alignments and a full set of drivers for either combination so I could swap if desired.

Where I had years to get familiar with the HO sound I've had a couple of months to really like the LF too. It requires little to no EQ where I found with the HO a little correction was helpful. Knowing that the ML-1C is too small to produce good bass even with the LF driver I am thinking the HO is the best choice because 1) it also has the edge on midrange performance and 2) the system will always be used with separate powered subwoofers.

The efficiency would also be a better match for alternate amplifier choices like the Dynaco Mark IV. I use a simple Nakamichi EC100 12dB/octave crossover on the Onkyo A-7 preamp output to divide to a JBL UREI subwoofer amp. A separate plate amp runs the center Peerless XLS12 cabinet.

Where EQ is concerned I've thought about both digital and analog paths. My current SAE 180 parametric works well. I also have a old PAIA 4 band parametric kit where I could similarly create 2 bands per channel and use fixed permanent resistors in a simple RCA in/out box to make corrective action. The digital domain provides endless options but I would prefer analog if it gets a good result.

Anyway, I am getting a bit ahead but those are some thoughts on the process. I do like the idea now of having the LF versions in the road ready cabinets and ready to rock without subs, not that it happens that often anymore. They're tuned at least 10 Hz lower and have double the X-Max of the original HO configuration.

The "cave" listening space may not be pretty but it works for me. This will give you an idea of the environment.

Current_shot.jpg
 
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I've hit a wall. I have 4 cu ft cabs, 12" Dayton woofers, horns, Dayton compression drivers, official eWave crossover boards and everything needed to stuff them, and a set of spikes. I absolutely lost interest. I assume it will come back.
 
djnagle said:
I've hit a wall. I have 4 cu ft cabs, 12" Dayton woofers, horns, Dayton compression drivers, official eWave crossover boards and everything needed to stuff them, and a set of spikes. I absolutely lost interest. I assume it will come back.
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I can understand that.
That happened to a guy intent on restoring a 1906(?) Stanley steam car after he disassembled and fully documented the thing. A friend bought it as-is and did the resto.
http://theoldmotor.com/?p=157125
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djnagle said:
I've hit a wall. I absolutely lost interest. I assume it will come back.
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Mr Djnagle,
Perhaps you need to purge some existing completed builds from your collection and then you'll have the physical and mental space to add something new into the back into it?

Or grabbing this lot for $90.....

IMG_20200111_091739114.jpg IMG_20200111_091733601.jpg IMG_20200111_091403260.jpg IMG_20200111_091356327.jpg IMG_20200111_091319414.jpg

That's what works for me!
Good luck.:beerchug:
 
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djnagle said:
I've hit a wall. I have 4 cu ft cabs, 12" Dayton woofers, horns, Dayton compression drivers, official eWave crossover boards and everything needed to stuff them, and a set of spikes. I absolutely lost interest. I assume it will come back.
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Ugh. Been there, I feel for you. Hopefully things are otherwise good and you just need time to leave the effort until the mood strikes again. Maybe focus in other areas for a while?

There are aspects of these do-it-yourself designs that make them pale to the best of other well known commercial products. Still, every loudspeaker imparts a unique character to the listening experience and in the end, for me, there's special satisfaction to enjoying music, particularly long since listened to selections. through something of your own creation. It should be fun and hopefully shared with others.
 
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Afraid it's indecisiveness on my part for lack of progress. Once I knew these would always need subs I was going to paint them black like the L-R subs in the picture above. They would make a great pairing. Two other reasons were because they have different finish hues (different serial numbers, one even had a round crossover cutout, the other square) but also that there's some finish damage and hammered finish paint is a quick fix for that!

But now I do like the brownish/gold contrast with the horn and lower grill. To move forward the plan is to leave finishing work until later and just put them together as-is, even though that means they may stay that way for a while. Ideally first I will paint the front baffle area behind the grill black and have a hand at sanding and fixing the veneer which has some damage.

Damage and hue variation is visible in this photo.

02_finishes_were_disimillar

02_finishes_were_disimillar

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Katalyst said:
Once sanded to fresh wood the hue may even out. Yours are in much better shape to start with than my last ones.
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Terrific job on that cabinet restoration. It looks quite amazing.

The grills for the ML's are slightly different too but only with close inspection. I imagine if sanding and staining goes well then that's the end of it. Thanks for the encouragement.
 
No stain used on mine. Dark walnut oil for the first coat to pop the grain. Natural Danish oil for the rest of the coats. There are others on here who know much more than I do. 4-2-7 for one.
 
You guys are right. I started with a little sanding block but was constantly scraping it clear with a putty knife. A larger drywall hand tool got the job done with some elbow grease.

One cabinet was all I could finish last night. I'll post some pics when I get back to it but it looks like a really nice veneer under that previously dark finish. Paint...what the hell was I thinking!
 
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