Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

I ended up ordering enough parts to do two sets. I'm going to use the printed board for the standard econowave crossover and do another point to point crossover for my smaller advent spitballs following this crossover
RQlJ8qe.jpeg


I'm anxious to see how the Magnavox horns do, I've listened to a few DIY speakers on YouTube, some sound nice, others not so much. I can't spend the cash on 4 waveguides and drivers just yet but this should give me a decent idea of what direction I'm going to take.

The spitball, CV and dynaco woofer all all 8ohm with the CV and dynaco being ported. The spitball Advent may be the only decent sounding speaker since zilch reworked the crossover. I'm excited to start, the wife is going on a trip so I'll have plenty of peace and quiet!
 
EarlK said:
Zilch stitched-up this mash-up using Jacks original LF filter for the le14 combined with the HF from a different//later "Deluxe" ( + then called it the "le14-deluxe" )

:)
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Thanks! That's just what I need.

In catching up with the last few months, I noticed someone saying that the LE14A crossover happened "@ 900Hz" and that the lower XO might cause a power handling issue for the HF driver. The notation on these two schematics belie that, since the HF XO point is stated as 3KHz for both.
In looking for the original LE14A schematic, I came across the discussion between Jack Giff and Zilch as they tried to eliminate the excess energy @ 1.6KHz.

On a different tack, I tried grafting the Deluxe HF onto an L100T woofer, (2214H IIRC), without much luck. Has anyone seen a successful project using that woofer? I liked the low end on that one, but it just didn't jell at the XO. I'd like to revisit that project as I just rotated them off to storage and moved on.
 
A21629DF-4EFD-4DC0-A749-2FE3B6CCC048.jpeg Beautiful weather yesterday! I was able to make some sawdust...



I'm building larger cabinets to transfer my Standard eWave components, 4.5 cu. ft. tuned to 27-28 Hz.

Now my question; I am using the following flared port B-52-AERP-35-3x5-Plastic-Port-299-2325 I understand that the flair will add "length" to the tube. So, if it is a 3" port 5" long with the large flare, what does it's effective length become? Any ideas? @Katalyst am I correct when I say you have used these ports in the past? Did you correct for the flare? Thank you!

Smiley
 
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4343 said:
Thanks! That's just what I need.

In catching up with the last few months, I noticed someone saying that the LE14A crossover happened "@ 900Hz" and that the lower XO might cause a power handling issue for the HF driver. The notation on these two schematics belie that, since the HF XO point is stated as 3KHz for both.
In looking for the original LE14A schematic, I came across the discussion between Jack Giff and Zilch as they tried to eliminate the excess energy @ 1.6KHz.

On a different tack, I tried grafting the Deluxe HF onto an L100T woofer, (2214H IIRC), without much luck. Has anyone seen a successful project using that woofer? I liked the low end on that one, but it just didn't jell at the XO. I'd like to revisit that project as I just rotated them off to storage and moved on.
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Asymmetric crossovers are the coin of the realm to allow the woof to meet the tweet in the sweet spot.

I've not had any luck with the 2214H in a two way. Just me, I think.
 
Steve Smiley said:
Now my question; I am using the following flared port B-52-AERP-35-3x5-Plastic-Port-299-2325 I understand that the flair will add "length" to the tube. So, if it is a 3" port 5" long with the large flare, what does it's effective length become?...

Smiley
Click to expand...
Rule of thumb is to consider the additional length extends to the middle of the curve.
Remember, for lowest distortion the flare should be recessed flush with the baffle. And for even lower distortion there should be a flare on the inside as well. Further reductions can be had by flush mounting the inside flare to a small baffle. Somewhere here I documented doing that to some L100T's I used to have.
 
4343 said:
On a different tack, I tried grafting the Deluxe HF onto an L100T woofer, (2214H IIRC), without much luck. Has anyone seen a successful project using that woofer? I liked the low end on that one, but it just didn't jell at the XO. I'd like to revisit that project as I just rotated them off to storage and moved on.
Click to expand...

The 2214H doesn't make it above 1K in any sort of linear fashion.

Here are two different examples showing the raw response of that woofer ( posted by 2 different LHF members ).

attachment[1].jpgattachment[1].jpg

One can see that the "Deluxe HF" portion needs to be redone to reach down lower ( for an effective crossover to the woofer at @ 1K ) .

:)
 
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4343 said:
Rule of thumb is to consider the additional length extends to the middle of the curve.
Remember, for lowest distortion the flare should be recessed flush with the baffle. And for even lower distortion there should be a flare on the inside as well. Further reductions can be had by flush mounting the inside flare to a small baffle. Somewhere here I documented doing that to some L100T's I used to have.
Click to expand...

Thanks so much for putting me on the right path. So, if I understand correctly, the tube is about 3.5" long before the flare. With the remaining 1.5" of flare divided by two, that puts us at effective port length of 4.25". I'll go with 4.25-4.5" given the flare is not uniform, however gradual at first and them more sever at the end.

This is a good port to use two of them connected end to end so we have a flare on both ends. I can picture how to build a baffle for the other end as well... very cool.

The port length for tuning in this build is a bit short to fit in two of them, provided the cuts I'd have to make but I will definitely explore it. I already cut in my baffle for flush mounting :thumbsup:

I continue my build with much more confidence I'll get it right. Thank you again!

Smiley
 
Got a spare jbl2445j pair and jbl 2202h pair. What waveguide would match up with this pairing to make it into an econowave?
 
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They use the 2370 a bunch in PA rigs, but it "supposedly" lacks top end. I have a pair in the JBL SP216-6 that I have not listened to yet, so I can't vouch for my previous statement.

For crossover's sake, check to see of your 2445s are H or J.
 
turnitdown said:
They use the 2370 a bunch in PA rigs, but it "supposedly" lacks top end. I have a pair in the JBL SP216-6 that I have not listened to yet, so I can't vouch for my previous statement.

For crossover's sake, check to see of your 2445s are H or J.
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It’s J 16ohms.
 
2370 is a 1" throat, while 2445 is a 2" throat. gonna need an adapter for that combo. I'd suggest a 2380A 2" Bi-radial would be the closest pattern to the econo waveguide @ 90 deg X 40 deg. Other patterns are available, but harder to find, especially if you want them to be econo.

However a 2" driver can never properly recreate the polars of a 1" driver through the crossover region, if I remember Zilch's discussion of the reason to stick with 1" drivers correctly.

That said. I use the 2445 and 2380A to great effect when combined with two pairs of 2226J 15" bass drivers in a 2.5 way setup. Great for live performances and PA.
Be sure and measure the resistance of the J designated drivers, a lot of time has passed since they were new, and there are a lot of aftermarket diaphragms available... Anything's possible is what I'm saying. I'm good at putting a P-Touch label on my drivers when I swap diaphragms, my 2445's say " Radian 8 Ohms" instead of the original "J", but others might not be so retentive...
 
Steve Smiley said:
...

I can picture how to build a baffle for the other end as well... very cool.
...

Smiley
Click to expand...
I put the inside flare into a brace that tied the bottom and both sides together. Basically just a square piece with a round hole in it set to the proper distance from the baffle. It was a bit more involved trying to get one into an existing cab though, I ended up cutting it in two so it would fit through the woofer opening.
The whole process is:
Add a sawblade width to one dimension, then cut it in half. Check the fit inside the box.
Glue the pieces back together, but only put glue in the portion that is going to be removed for the hole in the middle.
Cut the hole out. I use a Jasper jig and router. A jigsaw could work as the sloppy cuts will be hidden inside anyway, and you wouldn't need to glue the pieces together.

If you don't need to brace anything a round piece from say a woofer cutout works pretty good as well.
 
hearhead said:
Got a spare jbl2445j pair and jbl 2202h pair. What waveguide would match up with this pairing to make it into an econowave?
Click to expand...

The 2202H is a high-efficiency midrange with little to no bass capabilities ( it doesn't even classify as a mid-bass driver which is the type that Zilch used in his eWave designs ).

Hopefully you know all this and have a woofer in mind to use underneath it ( like a big 18" of some sort )

Ancient JBL cinema speakers ( circa 1980's-90's ) used the 2445J mated to a 2380 ( or 2385 ) biradial crossed over by a 3110a or 3120a crossover.

)
 
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hearhead said:
If using a minidsp, what crossover slope should I use for the 900hz LP and 3000khz HP?
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Most eWave crossovers are 2-pole ( 2nd order ) designs.

You can try 2nd order Butterworth on the LowPass and 2nd order LR on the HiPass.

You'll need some form of RTA ( even an RTA phone app will do ) to determine the how well things mesh at crossover.

:)
 
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4343 said:
On a different tack, I tried grafting the Deluxe HF onto an L100T woofer, (2214H IIRC), without much luck. Has anyone seen a successful project using that woofer? I liked the low end on that one, but it just didn't jell at the XO. I'd like to revisit that project as I just rotated them off to storage and moved on.
Click to expand...

Here's a crossover you can try.

eWave_de250_with_JBL2214H_.png

It uses Zilch's standard "Deluxe" horn circuit for the de250+152i combo and a slightly modified JackGiff LowPass ( which actually "bumps-up" the 2214's natural response above 1K > enabling this 1650hz crossover point ) .

Woofer is meant to be front mounted ( as opposed to Zilchs preference for putting the woofer on the backside ).

:)

PS: for those who like to play with XSim, here's the file ( with the included frd's + zma's ).
- I used Zilch's original frd's+zma's for the horn/driver combo and then I custom made frd + zma's for the 2214H from sources found over at LHF.
 

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EarlK said:
Most eWave crossovers are 2-pole ( 2nd order ) designs.

You can try 2nd order Butterworth on the LowPass and 2nd order LR on the HiPass.

You'll need some form of RTA ( even an RTA phone app will do ) to determine the how well things mesh at crossover.

:)
Click to expand...
Thank you for the info!

By using 2nd order filters with LR and Butterqorth combo, eliminate the need to wire the tweeter out of phase with the woofer?
 
hearhead said:
Thank you for the info!

By using 2nd order filters with LR and Butterqorth combo, eliminate the need to wire the tweeter out of phase with the woofer?
Click to expand...

I doubt it's that easy. Driver polarities would still need to be determined ( based on what I see in the referenced crossover ).

The numbers you quoted ( 900 + 3000 hz ) are specific to a crossover designed for the JBL le14a woofer and B+C de250 driver on a QSC 152i horn.

My crossover-slope advice is only applicable if you are using those drivers.

:)
 
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