Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

[tmccullough]

Jump right in and have some fun building a pair of EconoWaves. There are plenty of experienced people on this thread who are glad to offer advice and help. You will have some new challenges, but you will conquer them and be a better person for it. I hope to see the finished results of your build in a couple more weeks.

I just veneered the bottom of the one that had water damage repairs, and put a bit of dark wood filler in the bottom of the sides, and it looks pretty good now.
A coat of Howards Feed and Wax does wonders for an old dried out speaker cabinet. :yes:

Well, it won't be within the next few weeks, and likely won't be over the summer. Just too much other stuff going on. At least, though, I have a path forward.

If I have this right, I can basically take the woofer I have and use it. I replace the mid/high with the aforementioned replacement tweeter. I then buy a crossover from some AK'er, some caps, solder it up willy, and I'm good to go, right? This sounds like, as the kids say, pure win.

Will I need to modify the cabinet at all? I gotta say, this just seems too easy.

 

[jackgiff]

Well, it won't be within the next few weeks, and likely won't be over the summer. Just too much other stuff going on. At least, though, I have a path forward.

If I have this right, I can basically take the woofer I have and use it. I replace the mid/high with the aforementioned replacement tweeter. I then buy a crossover from some AK'er, some caps, solder it up willy, and I'm good to go, right? This sounds like, as the kids say, pure win.

Will I need to modify the cabinet at all? I gotta say, this just seems too easy.

Of course it is not that easy. You will need to use your hands and your head to successfully do the job. Replacing the mids and highs with the waveguide and driver means you will need to cut the baffle to fit the new waveguide, and it will need to be recessed into the panel if you want to use the Nova grille. Plus the waveguide will be smaller than the total surface of the mids and tweet, so any left over holes will need to be filled. I do that by cutting a round circle of 3/4 inch particle board or MDF, and gluing or epoxying it in place. The cabinet when finished wants to be as air tight as when you started.

And the Nova 8"s I had used a black plastic piece to provide speaker connections and mid/tweet adjustment pots on the back panel. It was flimsy, could flex, and had holes around the wire input terminals as well as around the RCA input. I built a replacement for that with 3/4 inch particle board, which has the speaker terminals mounted on it plus the L-Pad. It was glued and screwed into place instead of the plastic piece Radio Shack used.

And the grille must be modified to let the HF out. See the picture of the back of a Nova 8 grille that has been modified to suit the 6 X 12 waveguide. The grill cloth is glued to the cutout board, so it must be removed and stripped to cut the new opening. New grille cloth then needs to be glued on.

Lots of small steps which are not usually explained here, but will become apparent to you over the course of building yours. That is why it is fun. Maybe you won't say.."Bob's your uncle"... but the finished product is extremely satisfying. The last picture is the pair of Nova 8's in my office. I think they are super.

 

[Br1ck]

Heresy Econowave

I just finished one speaker using a Heresy cab, rebuilt Eminence pro 12" ers that were from a DJ cab, and the Selenium 220ti, and the Zilchlab board crossovers. What I hear is very promising. I've got to get the second one built pronto. I do not know the sensitivity of the Emi speakers, but suspect they are in the +95db range as the balance sounds about right with the L pad full on.

Would changing the x over values to the >95db values be in order?

Went with the Heresy cabs because I have a sub. What stands out is the smoothness and depth of sound stage when driven with my ST- 70. No harshness at all.

 

[jackgiff]

I just finished one speaker using a Heresy cab, rebuilt Eminence pro 12" ers that were from a DJ cab, and the Selenium 220ti, and the Zilchlab board crossovers. What I hear is very promising. I've got to get the second one built pronto. I do not know the sensitivity of the Emi speakers, but suspect they are in the +95db range as the balance sounds about right with the L pad full on.

Would changing the x over values to the >95db values be in order?

Went with the Heresy cabs because I have a sub. What stands out is the smoothness and depth of sound stage when driven with my ST- 70. No harshness at all.

Sounds like you need to try the >95 dB crossover. There are only two values to buy, one resistor and one capacitor. A simple change, and probably worth doing if the L-Pad is at max now.

 

[tmccullough]

Of course it is not that easy. You will need to use your hands and your head to successfully do the job. Replacing the mids and highs with the waveguide and driver means you will need to cut the baffle to fit the new waveguide, and it will need to be recessed into the panel if you want to use the Nova grille. Plus the waveguide will be smaller than the total surface of the mids and tweet, so any left over holes will need to be filled. I do that by cutting a round circle of 3/4 inch particle board or MDF, and gluing or epoxying it in place. The cabinet when finished wants to be as air tight as when you started.

And the Nova 8"s I had used a black plastic piece to provide speaker connections and mid/tweet adjustment pots on the back panel. It was flimsy, could flex, and had holes around the wire input terminals as well as around the RCA input. I built a replacement for that with 3/4 inch particle board, which has the speaker terminals mounted on it plus the L-Pad. It was glued and screwed into place instead of the plastic piece Radio Shack used.

And the grille must be modified to let the HF out. See the picture of the back of a Nova 8 grille that has been modified to suit the 6 X 12 waveguide. The grill cloth is glued to the cutout board, so it must be removed and stripped to cut the new opening. New grille cloth then needs to be glued on.

Lots of small steps which are not usually explained here, but will become apparent to you over the course of building yours. That is why it is fun. Maybe you won't say.."Bob's your uncle"... but the finished product is extremely satisfying. The last picture is the pair of Nova 8's in my office. I think they are super.

That doesn't seem too bad. I was thinking it might be a whole rebuild the cab. I think the only part I'd have trouble with would be designing a crossover. But apparently I just need to buy that from someone here. Quite reasonable. I am looking forward to getting to this at some point.

 

[tiga]

Well, it won't be within the next few weeks, and likely won't be over the summer. Just too much other stuff going on. At least, though, I have a path forward.

If I have this right, I can basically take the woofer I have and use it. I replace the mid/high with the aforementioned replacement tweeter. I then buy a crossover from some AK'er, some caps, solder it up willy, and I'm good to go, right? This sounds like, as the kids say, pure win.

Will I need to modify the cabinet at all? I gotta say, this just seems too easy.

How do we know the woofer would be appropriate? Is it safe to assume it reaches the appropriate frequency for the crossover? I have no way to measure one so may someone here has measured the 7b woofer already. I can always to the Nova 8's but I really like the low end of the 7b's.

 

[Br1ck]

Finished my second Heresy cab. Tested with Steely Dan's Aja, Exile on Main Street, some Diana Krall, and Kind of Blue. These speakers sound good on everything so far. Next up, Van Cliburn.

 

[juniorJBL]

Anyone want to help do an Alpha 8a with the SEOS-10? I think that's one of the things Zilch was working on last.


I'm having the prototype company make a 1 piece baffle for the SEOS-10 with a 10" woofer, and the SEOS-12 and SEOS-15 with a 12" woofer.

Maybe I should have them make a 1 piece baffle for an 8" woofer as well??

Any thoughts on this?


Pricing should be pretty decent.

I think an 8" would be killer. Great for surrounds as well. That could even be a good LCR as well.!

 

[juniorJBL]

Yes, the problem is, the post is so enormous, it's hard to find what you're looking for. I like the concept of the 'members project' links, but it would be better if you saw what the member acutally did.

First page then click on "Project Summary" That will take you to the xo's and parts lists.

 

[winters860]

Ok, so I'm now the proud owner of a pair of B&C DE250 and QSC 152i waveguides.

I'm waiting on a pair of JBL E140 cores to get reconed into 2235H equivalents, but the project's giving me a lot of anxiety. Will the "2235E" play nice up to 1 kHz? Can I tackle the challenges of my first complete crossover design in a way that does justice to these drivers? Will I be able to finagle some time with a CLIO rig? :scratch2:

So I'm re-evaluating my plans. Those 2235E would make great subs and if I build the Econowave Deluxe, the crossover design work is already done.

The problem is that I really don't want to feel the need for separate subs with my next build, as I feel I would if I went the Deluxe route. So I'm considering shelving plans for the 2235E and building an Econowave variant using the Deluxe top-end with Eminence Delta-12LFA. They're a hell of a lot cheaper than the Eminence 3012LF, and it looks like they'll put out as much or nearly as much bass as the 2235E if I use a large enough enclosure.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

 

[gychang]

If anyone's interested in reading the article I wrote for Make Magazine on converting the Large Advent to Ewave it's now online and available free.
It's pretty much the same content as the ULA conversion thread but is quite a bite more concise, due to the scrupulous editing of Make Senior Editor Goli Mohammadi. Goli makes me look like I know what I'm saying as well as what I'm doing.

what will be involved in a smaller Advent?, there is a local person selling Advent Prodigy...

thanks

 

[fergs]

Greetings Winter, where did you manage to get your QSC 152i waveguides from. Am after a singular waveguide for a mono system
cheers fergs

 

[EarlK]

Greetings Winter, where did you manage to get your QSC 152i waveguides from. Am after a singular waveguide for a mono system .

Available Here !

<>EarlK

 

[fergs]

Cheers Earle, happy days fergs

 

[bwaslo]

Winter, you've probably heard it before, but I bet you'd get a lot better sound using separate subs. Very low frequency speakers are very placement sensitive (best is with multiple subs irregularly placed around the room), and the likelihood of the best place being where you'll have the mains is just about nil.

If you're connected at PE, can you borrow an Omnimic and WooferTester for your measurements? The Dayton PA-380-8 woofer looks usable, at least on paper (I haven't actually measured one in the flesh, but according to the data sheet it looks well-behaved, if used with separate subs)

 

[dnewma04]

Ok, so I'm now the proud owner of a pair of B&C DE250 and QSC 152i waveguides.

I'm waiting on a pair of JBL E140 cores to get reconed into 2235H equivalents, but the project's giving me a lot of anxiety. Will the "2235E" play nice up to 1 kHz? Can I tackle the challenges of my first complete crossover design in a way that does justice to these drivers? Will I be able to finagle some time with a CLIO rig? :scratch2:

So I'm re-evaluating my plans. Those 2235E would make great subs and if I build the Econowave Deluxe, the crossover design work is already done.

The problem is that I really don't want to feel the need for separate subs with my next build, as I feel I would if I went the Deluxe route. So I'm considering shelving plans for the 2235E and building an Econowave variant using the Deluxe top-end with Eminence Delta-12LFA. They're a hell of a lot cheaper than the Eminence 3012LF, and it looks like they'll put out as much or nearly as much bass as the 2235E if I use a large enough enclosure.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

You can do far better for subs than 2235s. They will play nicely up to and past 1k by a few hundred hz. I think I'd stick with them with the QSCs. They'll play low enough to give you enough low frequency performance to get you by. Add a couple of Dayton Reference 12s and you'll be all set.

 

[Dr. Beaker]

Ok, so I'm now the proud owner of a pair of B&C DE250 and QSC 152i waveguides.

I'm waiting on a pair of JBL E140 cores to get reconed into 2235H equivalents, but the project's giving me a lot of anxiety. Will the "2235E" play nice up to 1 kHz? Can I tackle the challenges of my first complete crossover design in a way that does justice to these drivers? Will I be able to finagle some time with a CLIO rig? :scratch2:

So I'm re-evaluating my plans. Those 2235E would make great subs and if I build the Econowave Deluxe, the crossover design work is already done.

The problem is that I really don't want to feel the need for separate subs with my next build, as I feel I would if I went the Deluxe route. So I'm considering shelving plans for the 2235E and building an Econowave variant using the Deluxe top-end with Eminence Delta-12LFA. They're a hell of a lot cheaper than the Eminence 3012LF, and it looks like they'll put out as much or nearly as much bass as the 2235E if I use a large enough enclosure.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

Search the thread for 2235 e-wave usage from (I think) Russellc and maybe others. It's been used here.

JBL used the 2235 to 1000 Hz on the 4430. If you are converting e140's you can leave off the mass ring to make them 2234's. The 2234 will play higher but with some low end sacrifices. I don't know the specific numbers.

Search the thread also for 2234.

 

[gcarlberg]

Ok, so I'm now the proud owner of a pair of B&C DE250 and QSC 152i waveguides.

The problem is that I really don't want to feel the need for separate subs with my next build,

Thoughts? Suggestions?

I have built about 10 pairs of ewave’s for my kids and friends using JBL 116a, 127, LE10, LE14a, HPM60 plus a couple more. I have incorporated all 3 of the JBL waveguides plus the QSC.
My current build is the same one you’re contemplating. I find them immensely satisfying; the absolute best of my builds with the LE14’s coming in a close second. The cabinet is 5.5 cubic feet tuned to 32hz.
I am not using a sub and am continually amazed how low they play, effortlessly with clarity. I borrowed a Sunfire sub from a local AK’er and really found it unnecessary for my taste/needs, which is music only.
My suggestion would be to build with the 2235’s and consider using the Z19 crossover. Sit back and enjoy and then evaluate if you feel the need for more low end. I would bet not. :yes:
George

 

[4343]

Search the thread for 2235 e-wave usage from (I think) Russellc and maybe others. It's been used here.

JBL used the 2235 to 1000 Hz on the 4430. If you are converting e140's you can leave off the mass ring to make them 2234's. The 2234 will play higher but with some low end sacrifices. I don't know the specific numbers.

Search the thread also for 2234.

E140's have a stronger magnet assy compared to the 2225/2235 basket. Somewhere on LH there are graphs detailing the change to the 2235 frequency response. IIRC, it's similar to what happens to the 2235 when the mass ring is left out to make a 2234. (Slight roll-off of lows, with improved mid-band efficiency.) Perhaps using the stronger magnet and keeping the mass ring would sound more like a 2235?

 

[EarlK]

E140's have a stronger magnet assy compared to the 2225/2235 basket. Somewhere on LH there are graphs detailing the change to the 2235 frequency response. ,,,,snip

Don't know where those response graphs are, but ;

Here's a modification of Giskards' TS chart for stock & ( the Franken version ) 2235H-2234H woofers ( demonstrating the effects on TS due to the pumped-up magnets ) .

- I've added EBP figures at the bottom ( as given by WinISD PRo ) .

- That EBP figure is the woofer equivalent to the "Mass Break Point" figure, which is the vernacular used for compression drivers .

- These EBP figures are important because they offer some guidance about a transducers' natural voicing ( more or less, the area where it's most comfy reproducing sound ) .

- BTW, the venerable Altec 416 is in the low 90s area ( like the 2234 ) while GordonW(s) custom 2236 construct , comes in at about 74hz .

- A pumped-up "Franken 2234H" ( at 118 hz ) begs the question "Why Bother ? " / since the stock 2226H has an EBP of 120 hz ( along with much better power handling & low-mid "pop" ).

<> EarlK