BLASPHEMY! Or is it?

[theophile]

No matter what sonic compromises B&O gear may have,the industrial design team should win the equivalent of the Oscar or Nobel Prize(whatever it is they award designers).

That picture of the 9500 is simply beautiful. :yes:


Mind you,I am one of those people who would proudly own a superb sounding component even if it looked like a dog turd.Despite that I can still appreciate great visual aesthetics(even if they rank low on my list of priorities).

 

[tincat2]

i see this whole audiophile thing as a hobby that i have pursued off and on for forty years. the great thing here is that one can approach things from many angles and seek various rewards. endless tinkering and substitution keep me interested in the many components available to build a system. and , lo and behold, b&o has a system, or several, which come as a damn nice whole-it's not all i want, but i sure want at least one around because it's just damn cool.
keep both systems and get more-it's the only way.

 

[Snow]

Revox B&O McIntosh Krell etc there all just names and just because one brand may cost more than another is no guarntee that you will like the one that is more expensive or has a better reputation. I have listened to Mc gear and I "personally" didnt care for it. Go with whatever makes you and your ears happy who cares whether or not someone may think your nuts because you cant hear a difference or prefer one brand over another more expensive one :yes:



REGARDS JIM

 

[dr*audio]

I have bought and fixed a LOT of B&O gear. I don't find it hard at all.

I have one customer who has a B&O receiver. I'll PM you next time I have to work on it, for disassembly instructions.

 

[dr*audio]

Yes. The platter is light. There is no mat. Fine. Have you listened to one?

I sure have. It sounded lousy. With that light platter and no mat, the platter resonates, and also there is nothing to damp out the vibrations in the record as it is played. You can clamp the record to the platter but it isn't massive enough to damp the vibrations. The other problem with the B&O turntables is that you are stuck with their cartridge and alignment.

 

[whoaru99]

Why is it, when someone says they don't hear a difference, there must always be some reason like, "your speakers aren't revealing enough", etc.?

Maybe, just maybe, the reason is because there simply isn't much difference to be heard.

 

[theophile]

Why is it, when someone says they don't hear a difference, there must always be some reason like, "your speakers aren't revealing enough", etc.?

Maybe, just maybe, the reason is because there simply isn't much difference to be heard.

Besides the possibility that there is no difference to be heard,the lack of resolution is more likely to occur prior to the speakers.The speakers getting the blame,as they always do.....:nono:

 

[Tinman]

Why is it, when someone says they don't hear a difference, there must always be some reason like, "your speakers aren't revealing enough", etc.?

Maybe, just maybe, the reason is because there simply isn't much difference to be heard.

I'm beginning to realize that it's a matter of diminishing returns.

A proper amp will sound pretty much the same, regardless of brand. (WITHOUT tone controls)
A proper tuner, ditto. Etc.

The big money is in the details, but at what point are those details just not worth it? The biggest difference in sound that I can tell comes from the speakers themselves.

 

[Tom Brennan]

Besides the possibility that there is no difference to be heard,the lack of resolution is more likely to occur prior to the speakers.The speakers getting the blame,as they always do.....:nono:

Almost any electronics have better resolution than speakers if by resolution we mean clarity and lack of audible distortion. Not that electronics don't vary in sound or how they "shake hands" with various speakers though IME this manifests itself more as tonal colorations and imaging changes rather than as lack of resolution as I defined it.

 

[deaner33]

Thinking about getting rid of (some of) your Revox gear????? You're the Revox man, how can that be?

 

[Tinman]

So my whole point of this discussion was the fact that the B&O is an all-in-one system, albeit a NICE one. It should be easy to beat it out in both performance and sound quality. Or so I thought.

Yes, I have receivers that when the tone control and loudness are cranked can soar into the stratosphere and open the san andreas fault with bass, but that's not realistic. Point for point, given all tone set to neutral, the B&O continues to astound me with it's ability to keep it's place against what I would have thought to be "superior" gear.

I have been working so hard to replace it, because it MUST be worse, being fully integrated, than good seperates.

But it isn't.....

The tuner, while not world class, is very good. My favorite Jazz station, 88.1 comes in perfectly clear without any hiss or artifacts.

Only the Revox does the same.

The Tape deck, well, it's a toy next to the B215 with it's 4 motors and 3 heads. Both have HXpro.

The Revox records better, but not by much... THAT really surprised me. And I have 4 Revox B215's, so it's not that one deck.

The CD player uses a CDM-2 laser and the TDA-1541 DAC.

The Revox uses a CDM-1, but the DAC is also a TDA-1541.
Same in my Studer A727.

The B&O has an STK chip amp. 40WPC, and I always thought that was crap. But it's not....

The Revox puts out a solid 85WPC or 150Peak. Nice, big, output transistors using a traditional design.

Both sound the same, barring using an analyzer.

To play a record, tape, radio or CD (providing media is in place) I only have to touch that function on the B&O. It turns on, selects the function and plays. To record a cd, I just touch cd and record. The unit does the rest. (to cassette)
To play a record, I just touch Phono and the TT begins play. Don't like the track? Touch forward or reverse. Yep, the linear tracker will move back and forth. ALL from my chair.

It IS slick.

The Revox is industrial looking and has a zillion buttons. But it grew on me. Built like a tank, great quality, built to last. Or is it?

Every Revox I have had, needed a Re-cap. It's full of Frako caps and those little blue gems from Philips. (BCOD)

The B&O uses something different. While I do find the occasional Frako inside and replace it as a precaution, it does not use the notorious BCOD's. The one's they DO use, always test fine. After 30 YEARS!

So the B&O, which SHOULD be inferior as an integrated, isn't.
Did I mention it has a clock that can be set for multiple programs? Yes indeed.... turn on at 7am, play CD, track 4. At 9, switch to FM, 88.1. At 10, turn off.
You bet it can! It ALSO turns itself off after 15min if no music is actually playing.

I have never had respect for slick all-in-one systems. I have had a few, and they pretty much all sucked. NOT this one.

But it took a few years and a bunch of gear to realize again and again what a little gem I had all along.

Isn't that strange? NOT the outcome I expected.

I have to admit, this has been and continues to be a great learning experience. There are still new surprises to be had.


And so I continue my quest and the enjoyment of restoring vintage gear. I have come to understand that I enjoy the PROCESS of fixing old gear more than listening to it. I get to "taste" so many things I could only dream of when I was a young boy. Drooling at the glossy brochures stolen from various audio houses after school.

Oh man, those were the days. I fell in love with B&O in JR high school. The 9000 (later updated to the 9500) was IT for me. I always knew I had to have one. Listening to it with a set of Pentas was like a first kiss.

Fast forward some 30 years, and despite all the others since, I'm still in love.

 

[Tinman]

Thinking about getting rid of (some of) your Revox gear????? You're the Revox man, how can that be?

Not happening. I WILL be getting rid of all the single receivers, though. I only want matched systems at this point. With the only exception being my vertical load cd players.

 

[deaner33]

Not happening. I WILL be getting rid of all the single receivers, though. I only want matched systems at this point. With the only exception being my vertical load cd players.

That's a relief. :thmbsp: I've always been anti all-in-one systems mainly because if one part goes out then it can become a doorstop, but if you are able to repair them yourself then it's not a problem. Go with with what you like.

 

[Tinman]

That's a relief. :thmbsp: I've always been anti all-in-one systems mainly because if one part goes out then it can become a doorstop, but if you are able to repair them yourself then it's not a problem. Go with with what you like.

I have fixed 4 Beocenter 9500's whose owners were told they could NOT be fixed.

Guess what? It's just a vintage Philips CD player inside. Easy pickings. The rest of the set is straight forward.

I've bought these units cheap, fixed them and gave them as house warming gifts. I kept 2, and gave another one to my brother. He likes it.

 

[markmarc]

Why is it, when someone says they don't hear a difference, there must always be some reason like, "your speakers aren't revealing enough", etc.?

Maybe, just maybe, the reason is because there simply isn't much difference to be heard.

Maybe I missed it, but I never read what speakers are being used. One thing I've learned is that to pick out the more subtle details one needs to go up to the next level in speakers (with a couple of exceptions). The differences one hears in amps and cd's is pretty small in most under $1k speakers, because too many try to do too much thus compromising their performance. Move up to $3k speakers, and the differences become more obvious.

I'm not saying that listening to budget speakers is a waste, far from it. I love budget speakers and gear in general (obviously), that tries not to do everything, but focus in on what is possible and does it well. The ACI Emerald XL's are a perfect example of a mini-monitor that accepts that it isn't a tower, and executes to it's highest potential. The key is to find those budget speakers and gear, and when you do, sit back and enjoy.

B&O gear of that time is still years ahead of virtually everything else when it comes to ergonomics. One of these days I hope to find a working Beocenter reasonably priced and enjoy the hell out of it.

 

[dr*audio]

I neglected to mention that although I don't think much of B&O turntables, it is entirely possible that the electronics could sound good. I just hate working on them. I wish I could remember the model I worked on, all I remember is is was flat and I think it had a couple of slider controls on it that were attached to flat plastic pieces that showed in a display window, indicating the position of the control. Or maybe the pieces linked the control knobs to the slide pot, located elsewhere? Oh, and the output transistors were on the bottom, and I think you had to at least partly remove the board to get to them, which was very difficult to do.

 

[legal eagle]

Congratulations - you've reached audio nirvana. That elusive point where we say: "that's it".

There might be a simple explanation why the Revox and the B&O sound so similar: they are both European makers. It may just be some sort of similar phylosophy.

 

[rito25]

I kinda hate how the B&O gear looks, its almost too modern looking in my opinion, it would look nice in a modern looking home, or a room with lots of chrome.

 

[elcoholic]

B&O is spendy. B&O has highly integrated equipment (I can't quite say all-in-one in the same sentence). B&O is uniquly styled. Some don't like it because it doesn't say big, ol heap of bitchen stereo equipment. Some love it for the same reason. All that aside, it's great stuff and can pretty much hold it's own sonically against it's competition. Of course if you want the B&O aesthetic/integration then there really isn't any competition.

 

[bastek]

You are in love with your Beo-gear, you don't have to sell anyone on it, You just need a pair of BeoLab 5s and you' set. My friend got' em on sale (under $15K), and every time i visit, i' m in for a treat. Great set and plays any music format from flash memory cards too! :thmbsp: