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Why do these Advent/1 sound so bad !? (pics)

Mystery said:
If you are listening to Advent egg fried tweeters for the first time, yes they are bright.
When you crank up, they will be in your face with highs and lows but not enough mids.
Same thing with NLA's.
I've had 2 pairs of NLA's, 3 pairs of smaller advents and a pair of 1's.
All had similar sound. I think I mentioned in NLA thread few years ago that they sounded like there is a big mid frequency hole going from highs to low frequency.
Needless to say, I have passed them on except maybe one orphan somewhere in the basement.
New capacitors will clean them up so try that.
Maybe they are bad due to old crossover and ignore my comment if that's the case. ;)
Click to expand...

I agree about the recap, as it does effect the midbass/mids.
If the crossover frequency has shifted the whole speaker is out of balance, so it can be difficult to get a handle on the sound.
The weak point as with any of these vintage Advents is the tweeter.
They just aren't very good. Bright with mediocre definition.
One could easily find a acceptable tweeter, and adjust the crossover and probably have something pretty good for a few dollars.
Vifa and Goldwood have some nice soft dome tweeter that will go down fairly low with no ringing etc-for around $10 ea.
I have found they work excellent in a number of vintage 2 ways-and 3-ways as well.
I would also look at the dampening and adjust as needed.
These should have decent bass-and midbass.
The OLA cabs bring the bass up a couple db's, but it's still a decent woofer even by todays standard-just needs a better tweeter, and some crossover tweeking.
Vintage DLK suffer some of this as well, marginal tweeter.
However they seem to have a decent lower mids/mids, much more the any of the vintage Advent 2-ways I have heard which IMHO are laid back, more then a "hole".
IMHO a lot of it has to do with the tweeter compromise, which IMHO doesn't blend well with the woofer. As mention it seems to like calling attention to it's self.
The lower power, and/or lower quality amps you play them with (typical when they were sold) make this mid issue much more prominent.
Feed them 100+ watts of clean power and they wake up fairly decent.
You could also Econowave them....
 
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Doug G. said:
There is nothing wrong with the fried eggs.

Doug
Click to expand...

Sure- if you like 'em go for it.
However, there was a reason for the OLA Econowave projects....
IMHO the woofer really outshines the tweeter, especially in the larger cabinet.
A amp with high(er) damping factor also improves/cleans up the midbass response.
 
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automojo said:
Sure- if you like 'em go for it.
However, there was a reason for the OLA Econowave projects....
IMHO the woofer really outshines the tweeter, especially in the larger cabinet.
A amp with high(er) damping factor also improves/cleans up the midbass response.
Click to expand...

Automojo, have you heard the Econowave OLAs?
 
Jedi said:
I've had these for over a year and a half now and I just can't understand why they sound so bad . The highs are sort of up front and the bass will only sound ok if I turn up all the bass on the preamp . I got these free on CL and all they needed was a refoam . I got the foam from Simply Speakers and did the job myself . I've refoamed several speakers before and I know I did them right . I've gone over the cabs making sure there are no air leaks . I've gone over the wiring making sure I didn't hook the woofers up out of phase . Next to my BA-70's they sound like poop ! I dont get it . Any suggestions guys ?
Anyone ?
Click to expand...

What is obviously wrong with them is that they need baffle step compensation as I noted around 2004.
Here is what people thought who actually tried it, I am not interested in hearing from anyone who has
not tried it. It is interesting that people started arguing about it in 2004 and many people did not actually
build it until 2008. Russ was one of the first around 2004 and reported excellent results, he built more
than one he liked it so much:
http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=2692&page=3#entry66386

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=2693&hl=

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=2692&page=5#entry74424

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=2692&page=5#entry73332

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=2692&page=4#entry72883

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=2692&page=5#entry73093

I find it odd that Zilch argued with me so much about it when I don't think
he ever even listened to it. He did send me a pair of Econowave boards and
I finally got around to trying it - I have an A/B switch with level matching
and it does not sound very different from the stock Advent LOL! I couldn't
believe all the talk I'd read about them when I finally heard them.

I have big Stereophile A rated (at least in the past decade) references and
with BSC on stock OLAs it is hard to tell which one is playing in A/B tests when
I compare them. The references were also highly rated by Audio magazine and
the fact is that I like their sound and also the Advents with BSC, not without.
My reference speakers will play at least 6 dB louder than the Advents and with material
that goes deeper (below 40 Hz) in the bass they show, they are also more
extended on the high end. But within the Advents SPL limits and with most
program material it is VERY hard to hear a difference.
 
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This is my favorite, he takes Advents with BSC over his Celestion SL6si's!
http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/IP.Board/index.php?showtopic=2692&p=74537

"I have to agree. The Advents (with BSC) sound as fine as any speaker I have heard or owned. I am in the process of selling some of the pre advent equipment that I have acquired. I hooked up my old pair of celestion SL6si's prior to check them out prior to their sale. They are truly marvelous speakers, but lack the full range of the advents. I don't think I would want to go back."

In case people don't know just how good Celestion SL6's are John Atkinson says:
"The wooden-enclosure SL6 was the first dynamic speaker to have wooed me away from the old Quad ESL, its copper-dome tweeter at last enabling a moving-coil design to have some of the treble magic that is routinely bundled in with electrostatics. But then to hear, back in the Fall of 1982, how the same drive-units could be made to produce a true high-end sound by replacing the SL6's conventional chipboard enclosure with one fabricated from aluminum honeycomb, was a mind-blower."
http://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/744/
 
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Pete B said:
Automojo, have you heard the Econowave OLAs?
Click to expand...

Yes, they are ok. I made a set, but ended up giving them away-not a huge horn fan to begin with.
I see you point, and it makes sense IMHO. And could very well be why I didn't like them (still). I know I made some notes/observations and I will take a look...but it makes sense.
Stacking them-no-but getting them off the floor helps, along with getting rid of the grill-or making it "open".
If I has another set I would probably look into that, as the bass response on these IMHO is very good, especially for the money.
Still working on getting my ESS AMT3's were I want them, and along with a set of DLK Model 2's to provide some distraction....my plates full.
 
Here's an update : Last night at the gig (Ventana Resort Lounge) I was talking to a couple . The guy says he was getting into vinyl much to his wife's chagrin . He mentioned that he had bought a Sherwood receiver like his father had and a Pioneer TT , he couldn't remember the model numbers . And was now looking for some speakers to go with the vintage vibe . "Well my good friend" I said "you've come to the right place :D . He came over this morning and fell in love with the Advents ! "Buddy..take them home with my blessings . No need to get out the wallet just play it forward ." He left my house with a BIG smile .
So..after all this there is now somebody who really loves these Advent/1's and is right now listening to them in bliss .

Thankyou guys for all your input . Now if you'll excuse me I've got a line on some Polk Monitor 10's for real cheap...I'm off .
Rudy
 
Good for you! :thmbsp:

I had some Advents early on but they never sounded right to me either. Not a knock on those who love them but they just never did anything for me and I've never understood their popularity.

cubdog
 
I have a pair that I recapped plus have woofers that were professionally re-foamed by Fred Longworth. There are just better speakers out there. The Advents I think are over hyped. Good but not as good as some other speakers of the same type and vintage.

Plus the cabinet is sort of small for that 10 inch woofer.


I tend to use them with tubes though...I should hook them up to my NAD or Adcom and see how they are.
 
automojo said:
Yes, they are ok. I made a set, but ended up giving them away-not a huge horn fan to begin with.
I see you point, and it makes sense IMHO. And could very well be why I didn't like them (still). I know I made some notes/observations and I will take a look...but it makes sense.
Stacking them-no-but getting them off the floor helps, along with getting rid of the grill-or making it "open".
If I has another set I would probably look into that, as the bass response on these IMHO is very good, especially for the money.
Still working on getting my ESS AMT3's were I want them, and along with a set of DLK Model 2's to provide some distraction....my plates full.
Click to expand...

Given that they sound the same as the stock Advents they should also sound
much better with BSC. I wish you had tried BSC with the Ewaves.
 
Jedi said:
I've had these for over a year and a half now and I just can't understand why they sound so bad . The highs are sort of up front and the bass will only sound ok if I turn up all the bass on the preamp . I got these free on CL and all they needed was a refoam . I got the foam from Simply Speakers and did the job myself . I've refoamed several speakers before and I know I did them right . I've gone over the cabs making sure there are no air leaks . I've gone over the wiring making sure I didn't hook the woofers up out of phase . Next to my BA-70's they sound like poop ! I dont get it . Any suggestions guys ?
Anyone ?
Click to expand...

It is also possible that the ferro fluid was in bad shape. I've measured some
NLA tweeters to have much higher than normal resonance in the tweeter. It
is possible that they were stressed with extended loud listening - cooks the FF.
 
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