Now, next time I go back to Chicago, I can grab my crotch and say "I got your presbycusis, right here!".
My Crown D150... when amps were built like brick s#$ and weighed even more!
- Thread starter juptonstone
- Start date
Now, next time I go back to Chicago, I can grab my crotch and say "I got your presbycusis, right here!".
BMWCCA
Addicted Member
I said nothing of the sort, and you know it. But I think you enjoy taking umbrage, in general. I've been around here long enough to understand that.
And the Macs then were not all solid-state. I think the Crowns just did solid-state better at the time, and for less money.
I take umbrage at your implication that anyone who likes old Crowns must have a tin ear, too! :screwy:
Yeah, it's a bitch attempting to discuss any number of music appreciation qualities like imaging, resolution and focus to those who don't have the remotest idea to what I refer. Live unamplified music? Wazzat?Not everyone is at such an advanced stage of presbycusis.
BTW, all of which occur well below 12 kHz - my top end limit. I don't regret no longer hearing burglar alarms evident at 18 and wished the Dahlquist DQ-10s eschewed the Motorola piezos at the time.
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Fair enough.
Hmmm. Harsh vs. insipid.
I went a different direction altogether with my choices at the time.
I just now looked pdf data sheets on the Crown Studio Reference-II and PS-400 pretty respectable across the board .
I have a Crown XTi 2-2002 that sounds real good on full range music .
As for me, I completely avoid amps with a DF of 20,000 - that clearly indicates a wild (and clueless) overuse of negative feedback with greatly compromised top end response.
No thanks!
I think the Crown Studio Reference-II data sheet says it reaches 20,000 Hz you can hear more than that ? ... .....right be that as it may my XTi 2-2002 isn't compromised at all on flat studio monitors speakers not colored stuff lots of of hi fi stores sell
or lots of the vintage junk other than maybe ( not in the vintage junk category )>> Altec ,JBL or Klipsch and old school Infinities and few others which IMO were/are pretty good depending on which ones and maybe a few Pioneers and Yamaha here and there .
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What you hear is not the result of the low source impedance (the metric) - rather what occurs when using gratuitous amounts of corrective feedback to achieve that. Such is perfectly fine if you're driving bass bins or subwoofers. On the other hand, top end resolution suffers when employed full range. I find that high feedback amps sound bleached and unnatural at the top. You can *fix* only so much that has already happened!
Damping factors greater than about 50 arguably provide little to no benefit. It was all about specmanship of that day.
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Such is quite expected from a switching amp designer since they must use copious amounts of NFB along with requiring steep filters to remove the carrier signal - which none completely do as evidenced by their square wave performance. I choose to use my ears for evaluation as opposed to graphs. The Mola Mola amps have not exactly burned up the market since Bruno released them.
I am among many who are not switching amp fans for serious audio use (other than for subwoofers). They too have a characteristically threadbare top end response as compared with what you hear in a live unamplified environment.
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Blue Shadow
Waiting for Vintage Gear from this century
Finally, we read that all is good on that amp, crossover, sub set up. You had that stand to put together with the sub in it and such we were all just waiting to find out what you thought. Guess the system has some nice bottom end now.
At least the newer XTi I have has a much lower damping factor at 500 @ 10 to 400 Hz. .
( I thought the Studio II was higher than I usually see and a lot higher than 500 ) thanks for clarifying that for me . Eithe way the Crown XTi 2 2002 can put a lot of audiophile amps including ones I've owned to bed in every conceivable way that I can think of outside of some presumably inaudible thd+ n measurements .
Here are the spec for The XTi what do you think for full range music on flat studio monitors like my configuration.
XTi Specifications
Minimum Guaranteed Power, 1 kHz XTi 1002 XTi 2002 XTi 4002 XTi 6002
Per channel, both channels driven
Stereo, 2 ohms (per channel)
Stereo, 4 ohms (per channel)
Stereo, 8 ohms (per channel)
Bridge-Mono, 4 ohms
Bridge-Mono, 8 ohms
1000W 2Ω, 800W 4Ω, 475W 8Ω
0.5% THD. *With 1% THD. † Not rated for 100V versions.
Performance
Sensitivity (volts RMS) for full rated power at 4 ohms: 1.4 V.
Frequency Response (at 1 watt into 4 ohms, 20 Hz to 20 kHz): +0 dB, –1 dB.
Signal to Noise Ratio (below rated 1 kHz power at 8 ohms), A-weighted: 100 dB (103 dB in XTi 6000).
Damping Factor (8 ohm) 10 Hz to 400 Hz: > 500.
Crosstalk (below rated power) 20 Hz to 1 kHz: > 70 dB.
Input Impedance (nominal): 20 kilohms balanced, 10 kilohms unbalanced.
Input Stage: Input is electronically balanced and employs precision 1% resistors.
AC Line Current (120VAC amplifier playing 1/8 power pink noise into 4 ohms per ch):
XTi 1002: 6.8A, XTi 2002: 8.3A, XTi 4002: 10.5A; at idle draws no more than 30 watts.
XTi 6002: 15.3A; at idle draws no more than 180 watts.
Voltage Gain (at 1 kHz, 8 ohm rated output): XTi 1002: 30.5 dB. XTi 2002: 32.9 dB. XTi 4002: 34.2 dB.
XTi 6002: 37.1 dB.
Maximum Input Signal: +22 dBu ty
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Blue Shadow
Waiting for Vintage Gear from this century
I thought this thread was about someone enjoying a D150?
I think the discussion had evolved beyond one Crown product pretty obvious no ?
First of all, they appear to be switchers. When you have a 500W /channel amp that weighs 18lbs, you're usually not going to find an AB or even multi-rail G/H design.
I cannot comment directly on them (I did own a recent Crown amp for a short time) but at $500, the XTi1002 most likely offers great bang for the buck. For professional applications, the onboard DSP/crossover functionality would likely be very useful.
If you recall the thread topic also mentioned:
"when amps were built like brick s#$ and weighed even more!"
Then you'll find the obligatory anti-audiophile posts that follow.
Blue Shadow
Waiting for Vintage Gear from this century
So we are all thread crapping the original thread?
When it comes to those switching amps, there were two reviewed by stereophile that I read and in both cases the 55,000 buck pair and the cheap pair they wrote glowing reviews (obviously to keep the manufacturer happy and ad money flowing) until the final paragraph where the reviewer says the unit does not sound right. Switching amps aren't there, yet if they ever get there.
Good cheap power in a light weight unit, perfect for sound reinforcement not home audio.
When it comes to those switching amps, there were two reviewed by stereophile that I read and in both cases the 55,000 buck pair and the cheap pair they wrote glowing reviews (obviously to keep the manufacturer happy and ad money flowing) until the final paragraph where the reviewer says the unit does not sound right. Switching amps aren't there, yet if they ever get there.
Good cheap power in a light weight unit, perfect for sound reinforcement not home audio.
In addition to the Crown XTi 2002 I have a spare 13 lb 250wpc Behringer studio reference amp I picked up on Pay Bay for $80.00 incl. shipping that is a A/B amp with switch mode PSU using Fairchild and Toshiba differential outputs that can put a lot of audiophile amps in line behind it .
The Crown XTi are normal AB class amplifiers. The 2000, 4000 and 6000 have two tier power supply while the 1000 has a single supply. All are switching mode supplies.
Modern electronics have evolved quite a bit from audiophile conventional wisdom of the past especially with respect to dip 8 high end op amps like New Japan Radio Muses and some others for low voltage gain stages you can buy for $11.00 that can put many high end discrete circuit audiophile preamps or discrete integrated gain circuits in line behind them when used in a decent but inexpensive simple circuit . .
My Crown XTi2002 puts a phase linear 700B audiophile amp I owned to bed and it offers reliability ,clipping and and speaker protection unlike the ancient Bob Carver audiophile design . The P.L. 700B sounded very good but it didn't sound better IMO . OTOH I wouldn't throw rocks at or mind owning a phat dreadnought McIntosh or Krell or something like that either or even the excellent vintage monsters like Pioneer,Sansui,Yamaha etc. .
Lots of the people that make music and movies use Crowns and similar amps in the recording/production/movie studios and for post production ? Not trying to provoke an argument or debate ( that's already been decided by the pros ) so any audiophile argument here would be irrelevant in* that respect* just merely pointing out a fact that's all .
TOTL $20K JBL M 2 high dynamic range Master reference control monitors come with " Crown I-Tech 5000HD power amplifiers to complete the M2 system, providing more than a kilowatt per channel of pristine power ".
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I would certainly hope so!
Not at all. Most mainstream professional applications put a high priority on "cost management" for their shareholders.