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Bozak Speaker Placement: opinions, please

tensleep

tensleep

Addicted Member
Ok,

I have a pair of 302a in Barzilay cabinets, along with the center console. They are lined up together along a wall in my library. I have a longer wall that would allow me to further separate and angle the cabinets in or out. However, asthetics may suffer and this would require major rearranging of the the space. Can I expect a dramatic sound improvement?
 
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tensleep said:
Ok,

I have a pair of 302a in Barzilay cabinets, along with the center console. They are lined up together along a wall in my library. I have a longer wall that would allow me to further separate and angle the cabinets in or out. However, asthetics may suffer and this would require major rearranging of the the space. Can I expect a dramatic sound improvement?
Click to expand...

Rybeam has some bozaks I believe and will likely be along shortly to advise.

Russellc
 
Thanks for the response. Infinite baffle designs are intriguing to me and I am not sure how directional they are. I want to achieve a little more stereo separation, if possible.
 
Not sure of the driver layout in a barzilay cabinet but if the tweeters are mounted in front of the woofer and low, then it is similar to a Bozak layout. I raise the front of my 302s so the tweeter is firing more towards the seating postion. I also have the 3-piece system that includes the utility cabinet and have not found in any room the inline placement to be opimal except in one that was a smaller room. Being infinite baffle, the placement of the back to a wall is less critical but placing an edge against a wall will affect the sound. Toe-in will depend on how close you sit to them speakers as they were designed in a period when speakers were designed to sit flush against a wall. The lifting of the front will have more effect than toe-in.

As for the stero separation, it is also a function of the system. The speakers are not point source, tend to have a soundstage not much wider than the speaker nor the depth of newer designs. They were used in the days when mono center channel speakers were not all that uncommon and why some amps had center channel outputs. My system came with a single driver Bozak 201 and in using it with the 302s and the Sherwood S5000 tube amp, I think these early pioneers of >1 channel sound systems were on to something that we seemed to have lost.
 
Thanks for the information. The hf drivers are mounted high in the cabinets. Here are two interior pictures of the driver layout:

Bozak+B-302A+Interior+Left.jpg


B209B+MF+_amp_+B200Y+HF+Bozak+transducers.jpg


I can try slightly elevating the front on an experimental basis, but again, the asthetics concern me. Here is a picture of the cabinets together:

System+with+Barzilay+Cabinet.jpg


So, a center channel sounds intriguing! How do you source your 3 channel sound?
 
On early stereo amps, quite a few had a center channel output that was usually a preamp output while others used the amp and you usually tied a speaker across the + terminals or there was an isolation transformer before the sepaker. The idea was to fill in the hole in the middle experienced in stereo when the speakers were too far apart or to reinforce the mono center postion of solo instruments and vocals.

That is one nice looking system. You may find some benefit keeping about 1/2 - 1" spacing between the equipment cab and speaker cabs and bring the speaker cabs slightly forward of the equip cab. As the tweeters are high up, lifting the front probably will not yield as much benefit as with a set of Bozak cabineted 302s. One thing that I think is going to adversely impact the sound is the separation of the tweeters. I'd prefer having the midrange lower allowing the tweeters to remain together about it in either a horizontal angled array using the Bozak tweeter bracket or a vertical array with slight angling such as used in the Symphony and CG. In fact, I think having them together in front of the woofer in the coax array like the stock 302 would be better.

You may be dealing with an excellent cabinet, excellent drivers but put together by some guy with no knowledge of speaker engineering.
 
I intend to overhaul the crossover system and may look at designing a new baffle board(s) to reposition the drivers. I suppose a mirror image may also help with separation, in addition to some of your other suggestions?
 
Nice pics!

How far away is the back wall? Ceiling height? Listening seats?

Hard to speculate on placement without room dimensions. But we do it all the time anyway.

My Symphonies enjoy 3 feet from the back wall, 4 feet from the sides. Ignore comments about infinite baffle at wall placement, unless you tested it in your listening space. In my area it's the room modes that matter more. Elbow room is good.

Did I mention they sound glorious? :music:

Mirroring with that cabinetry in between most likely won't make a lick of difference. Replacing caps could do a lot more--they may be bone dry after 40 years.
 
More info and pictures

  • The room has a 9' ceiling
  • The floor is laminated hardwood on concrete monolithic slab
  • Dimensions are approximately 18' x 21'
  • Three square pillars break up the space
  • The room is supposed to be a formal dining room, but we like it better as a library
  • The stereo is in the front entryway, open to the library
  • The living room is adjacent through a large opening, along with two smaller doorways leading to the bedrooms and the kitchen

So that is the space.

  • I listen to all kinds of music
  • I use a Sony PS One as my cd player - works well for now
  • I have two recently acquired TTs, an Kenwood and a Denon
    http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=164909
  • I have a Yamaha CR-1020, using only the preamp at the moment, awaiting the time to go through the amp section
  • Power to the Bozaks is supplied by a Kenwood KM-X1000

I can certaily come up with some listening chairs. So, my idea is to move the stereo across the room for the following reasons:

  • Improve stereo separation
  • Make room for some kind of equipment rack
  • Get the pillars out from between the seating area and the stereo

The system sounds real good right where it is. I put it there because it was the only wall open and it was closest to the front door:D. It also fills most of the house with sound, the way the speakers are pointed. However, this is just the first place I have tried them and the first system I have hooked them to. I am just about finished cleaning and tuning up an HK 330c to put in place of the Yamaha/Kenwood so that I can get the Yamaha on the bench. The turntables are fun, but I cannot use them properly because of rumble (proximity to the speakers and no isolation), so I have a lot of placement work to do, that's for sure!

Anyway, it is all in good fun and I am loving this hobby more all the time! Here are pictures of the room and please excuse the camera, it doesn't do such a good job inside:

Library+and+listening+room_jpg+001.jpg


Library+and+listening+room_jpg+002.jpg


Library+and+listening+room_jpg+003.jpg


Library+and+listening+room_jpg+004.jpg


Library+and+listening+room_jpg+005.jpg
 
First off, beautiful Bozak set-up you have there.

I don't have much time in with mine, nor do I have a center cabinet. Also, mine have the feet on them, which raise them a few inches. In my cabinets, the tweeters are mounted in front of the woofers.

Anyways, I have found myself sitting on a lower, and lower plain while listening to them. And doing so, has given moderate benefits in the soundstage. The thing that has made the largest difference for me has been distance from the speakers. 15' feet or more from the listening spot to the speakers seems best in my room. I have yet to test with the drivers angled upwards, perhaps I'll get the chance next week.
 
I think that the tweeters should be closer together -- both on one side of the tweeter. Having them that far apart is going to cause significant interference. But if you are enjoying them as is and don't care to experiment, ignore this comment.
 
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