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RTR 100E Powered Loudspeakers?

MarkNJ

MarkNJ

Active Member
So, a continuation of this thread, I picked up the other half of the pair today... and I'm a little bewildered.

The only number I can pull off of the magnet is 5812296. There is another number there, but I couldn't really see it that well. I'll have to open up the other cabinet some time and see if that one's clearer.

They are unlike any other speaker I own, with a pair of electrostatic tweeters and a port on the back for the mid. And also, THEY HAVE A POWER CORD?!

So, I've seen that Charivari has Western Electric 100E Powered Loudspeakers, but I don't know how similar to these they are. Also, these seem like they are first gen RTR, as opposed to the later "Series" models that came out?
 

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Holy guacamole!! Those must be rarer than hen's teeth. Look at those quality components comprising the amp. Betcha they are heavy buggers!
 
electrostatic elements require 120v power. My RtR ESR15's have a power cord.
You have some real nice speakers. Recap those babies and let em sing!
 
OK, I think the other number is: 137 6926.. could be 5926

Which would make these CTS from '59 or '69 respectively.

One of the speakers has a cut power cord, but that will be simple enough to replace. I'll have to do a bit of research to try and find a schematic for the crossover (if one even still exists).

Too bad the one big RTR page seems to be down at this point.
 
That combination of high voltage supply for polarizing the electrostatics and cross over looks rather like that in the Transtatics I have, though mine have an extra transformer and a string of diodes as part of the power supply. I assume that the paralleled caps and the tape covered coil are the crossover, though so far I haven't done a careful analysis -- not yet sure how to get access without destroying them.
Obviously be careful about playing around with the crossover while they are plugged in, since you might polarize yourself.
 
I recently took a closer look at the crossover after my wife complained that these old speakers were sounding a bit muddy (:thumbsdn:). You can see the values of the Gudeman caps in the first picture. They seem to be connected parallel. Any chance I can replace those four with one of the right value? Also, does the one oddball being 50 VDC as opposed to 100 VDC make that impossible?

The other cap that I'll be swapping out is an old Callins, that I could luckily read the values on the other speaker. This is just going to get the best matching Dayton film replacement.
 

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MarkNJ said:
OK, I think the other number is: 137 6926.. could be 5926

Which would make these CTS from '59 or '69 respectively.

One of the speakers has a cut power cord, but that will be simple enough to replace. I'll have to do a bit of research to try and find a schematic for the crossover (if one even still exists).

Too bad the one big RTR page seems to be down at this point.
Click to expand...

The EIA code has to be 6926. The code was only 3 digits thru 1966 or 1967, when someone finally realized that they wouldn't be able to tell differences from one decade to the next with three digits (first is the last digit for the year, the next two are the week of the year.) So starting in mid 60's they went to a 4 digit code with the the first two digits being the last two of the year. This also makes sense because CTS wasn't a player in 1959, and RTR wasn't around until the mid 60's.

Good luck with the documentation. There is very little documentation to be found on any of the RTR models, especially when they were a real company (prior to ~ 1978). I've managed to track down some of RTR's original design engineers only to find that even they didn't have documentation.

The Australians were big supporters of the RTR electrostatic units, and I believe there is still a pretty active support group there. Maybe some of the AK Aussie's know of users, as I believe the heads of some of the "formal" audiophile groups were owners of units like my DR1's.
 
So, I think I've narrowed it down to:

(per crossover)

Dayton DMPC-20 20uF 250V Polypropylene Capacitor + Dayton DMPC-15 15uF 250V Polypropylene Capacitor = 35uF. This is a perfect replacement for the Callins cap.

Dayton DMPC-20 20uF 250V Polypropylene Capacitor + Dayton DMPC-0.68 0.68uF 250V Polypropylene Capacitor = 20.68uF. This is CLOSE to the original parallel caps at 20.84. Is there a better configuration for this? In other threads that I've read, it seems people want to split the values as evenly as possible amongst the parallel caps. For example, 10.42 + 10.42 here. However, I can only work with the values I see available...:headscrat

Also, should I be replacing resistors at this point? This is a go get the DMM and see what they read kind of thing, huh?
 
No round logo yet? No gold on the back control panel/speaker terminal plate? Wow those are early. :D

I think you have something quite special. First glance looks like a first prototype for the 1969 Infinity 2000A, which is a successful, musical E-stat hybrid (perhaps the first).

They had to have used the same cabinet maker as my 400E's and Infinity 2000A's. Likely the guy who became one of the 3 founders of Infinity. Real wood, furniture grade fit, either he veneered the insides or that's not veneer (see inside on the bottom). Likely the guy who became one of the 3 founders of Infinity.

Differences would be fiberglass instead of fiber fill, placement of the E-stat panels, that huge midrange isolation cylinder, back set of the front baffle, and of course the electronics.

The 2000A angled the panels. The 400E had all panels coplanar but angled the chamber behind them. Yours looks angled like some Janszen and an early 280.

Most all RtR estat panels I've seen are blue or blue-green . Janszen were black like yours, although I've seen one other pic with model 280 having black Estats.

Likely his first run of them (his=R. T. R. are initials) before getting colorful.

Nomenclature for readers of this thread: powered speakers usually means conventional drivers with a plate amp inside (i.e. powered subs and many new studio monitors). The AC cord to electrostats does not 'power' music to the speakers like an amp--you still need an external amp for those.

To make it muddier, there exist e-stats with both: AC for the HV bias circuitry, plus AC for a matched custom internal amp. Those are now, and were then, very expensive... :sigh


I have high maintenance speakers, and 2000A's are my very high maintenancest.

Would like to find somebody who archived that RtR info site so I can see it.
 
I've never heard of the 100E speakers - I hope youe enjoy them and can find more info. Do you have a presence control or -3db, 0db, +3db switch on the back? I've never seen another pair of RtR's like mine - no model#, but they do have the round Rtr emblem and the older gold back panel and RtR name with the controls, switches - I cannot find much on any of the older (real) RtR's - I would also be interested if anyone finds more info on any of the older RtR's. The 280's were also a very good speaker, I owned a pair in the early 70's.
 

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There are two different fuses on the back, but no controls or switches.. I'm VERY new to the world of speakers that use a power cord, so I'm still trying to sort out what everything is in the crossover.

It's kind of neat to think that I may have saved something from the curb that could be quite rare.
 
Oh, and can anyone confirm those caps that I want to use? I'd like to place my order and get these babies singing again!
 
It looks like they fused the HV supply to the electrostatics and a separate one for the conventional drivers. You have to take the tape off of the caps to see what the values are.
 
So, the parts came in today!

And one of the speakers sounds great! :thumbsdn:

One of the two tweeter arrays is SILENT. :no:

So, I suppose now I need to diagnose if it's an electrical problem or what. Anyone care to start me down the right path?

I found this link...
 
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