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Pioneer PL-25 problem

geode

geode

F4 Phantom Seat Jockey
Subscriber
I bought a Pioneer PL-25 belt drive TT. It apparently has a couple of problems. When I cue it down the arm just sits parrallel to the platter. It wont drop. Of course it also needs a belt. I can't get the platter off. I have pulled pretty hard but it won't budge. I put a little oil on it. But the arm not dropping is a real worry. This is a really nice and clean TT. I sure would like to return it to service. Anybody have any ideas about the arm problem.
 
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Hey, I thought I heard something rattle around inside. After opening the bottom, lo and behold I find the needle pressure guage. Of course I need to get this baby working.
 
The viscous damping fluid in the cylinder that holds the arm lift may have dried out or hardened over the years--or it may be fine and there's just some crusty crud keeping it from raising or lowering. Ideally it should be removed, cleaned and new stuff put in. But just to get it going up and down again, I'd spray some silicone or teflon lube into it and then work it up and down. Sometimes that's all it needs to revive it.

Also, this is an old turntable (1969) that is not all that common. It would be great if you could post some pics.
 
hakaplan said:
The viscous damping fluid in the cylinder that holds the arm lift may have dried out or hardened over the years--or it may be fine and there's just some crusty crud keeping it from raising or lowering. Ideally it should be removed, cleaned and new stuff put in. But just to get it going up and down again, I'd spray some silicone or teflon lube into it and then work it up and down. Sometimes that's all it needs to revive it.

Also, this is an old turntable (1969) that is not all that common. It would be great if you could post some pics.
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Thanks for reply Howard. It is a real beauty. I bought it today from an older gentleman who bought it while he was in the Air Force. The thing is super clean and has a wood base. The dust cover isn't even scratched. I'll try and get a picture of it. So, should I spray the silicone right at the base and then gently apply pressure up and down on the arm.
 
geode said:
Thanks for reply Howard. It is a real beauty. I bought it today from an older gentleman who bought it while he was in the Air Force. The thing is super clean and has a wood base. The dust cover isn't even scratched. I'll try and get a picture of it. So, should I spray the silicone right at the base and then gently apply pressure up and down on the arm.
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How about posting a pic first and I'll tell you exactly where to spray the lube and what to do? Better than doing this blindly as I have never seen one of these tables.
 
hakaplan said:
How about posting a pic first and I'll tell you exactly where to spray the lube and what to do? Better than doing this blindly as I have never seen one of these tables.
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That makes sense but I won't be able to post a picture until Saturday. Stay tuned the pics will be coming. Again I appreciate the help on this.
 
When you pulled with fingers through the holes, did you try rotating the platter, so you were pulling at different "locations" (different times around the clock face, so to speak)? I find some TT platters only come up at one or two locations, although why that is I'm not sure. Some get stuck over time --I"m not sure how, maybe the metal just gets "clingy" from surface oxidation?-- and need repeated pullings (somewhat gentle - you don't want to break anything!).
A drop or two of WD40 along the spindle sometimes helps. Make sure you have checked carefully for anything blocking it, and ROTATE that sucker while pulling! Good luck.

If the TT is automatic or semi-automatic, the lever arms which control the arm lifting-mechanism may have become screwed up/out of synch and be blocking the fall of the arm when they shouldn't be. Gently move the arm right and left while rotating the platter and see if anything shifts. Hard to give exact directions without seeing the specific mechanism, but if you play with it like this while observing carefully what is happening underneath you may be able to figure things out, or they may even slip back into place as you do it. I've "fixed" similar problems like this a few times in just this way.
 
Arkay said:
When you pulled with fingers through the holes, did you try rotating the platter, so you were pulling at different "locations" (different times around the clock face, so to speak)? I find some TT platters only come up at one or two locations, although why that is I'm not sure. Some get stuck over time --I"m not sure how, maybe the metal just gets "clingy" from surface oxidation?-- and need repeated pullings (somewhat gentle - you don't want to break anything!).
A drop or two of WD40 along the spindle sometimes helps. Make sure you have checked carefully for anything blocking it, and ROTATE that sucker while pulling! Good luck.

If the TT is automatic or semi-automatic, the lever arms which control the arm lifting-mechanism may have become screwed up/out of synch and be blocking the fall of the arm when they shouldn't be. Gently move the arm right and left while rotating the platter and see if anything shifts. Hard to give exact directions without seeing the specific mechanism, but if you play with it like this while observing carefully what is happening underneath you may be able to figure things out, or they may even slip back into place as you do it. I've "fixed" similar problems like this a few times in just this way.
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I have tried rotating and pulling. I put a drop of 3 in 1 oil on it. I can remove the bottom and take some pictures of the linkages. I sure want to get this fixed because it is incredibly clean for its age.
 
Like Howard, I'm awaiting pics before dispensing my sage wisd...uh...b.s. :D

Some of the old Pioneers also had a cueing height adjustment, that could be out of whack as well. Like Howard, I have not seen this model. These early Pioneers are usually pretty cool units, I'm eager to see the pics.
 
Sansui Louie said:
Like Howard, I'm awaiting pics before dispensing my sage wisd...uh...b.s. :D

Some of the old Pioneers also had a cueing height adjustment, that could be out of whack as well. Like Howard, I have not seen this model. These early Pioneers are usually pretty cool units, I'm eager to see the pics.
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Pics coming Saturday as promised! I agree, this table has already grown on me and I have yet to hear it play. It has a really nice real wood base. The table itself is very basic.
 
Okay, I got the camera fired up and took some pictures. I'm not the greatest of photographers, though. Howard, I took your advice and applied a little squirt of silicone to the damping bar. Voila it works like a champ now. Drops at a really nice slow rate. Thanks a heap for that one. NOw, I still have some issues to work out. One is I still can't get the platter off. The thing just refuses to let go. I put a drop of 3 in 1 oil on it and it has soaked for a day. Still won't budge though. Second problem, the table is supposed to start when i move the arm over the platter, but nothing happens. No sound no movement. I guess I need to get out the meter and see if the cord is faulty. If anyone has any suggestions on how to overcome these two additional problems, I would really appreciate it. Anyway, here are the pictures as promised.
 

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Glad to hear about the cueing.

Incidentally the manual to the very similar PL-41 is over at vinylengine.com.

The platter has probably not been removed in close to 40 years. That is why it is stuck. First try this. Get a small piece of wood that fits between the finger holes on the platter. While you pull up, push down on the wood with both thumbs evenly so that it exerts straight downward pressure on the spindle. If that doesn't work, get a partner. One person pulls up on the platter while the other taps gently on the spindle in a straight downward motion. Use a rubber or wood mallet, or a hammer covered with a towel very carefully. Tapping on the spindle off center or too hard or while the other person is not pulling can result in damage to the bearings. It may take a while, but eventually it will come off.

The line cord may be bad, or there may be no belt, or there is a microswitch that is actuated by the arm that might need adjustment or replacing. The sound has nothing to do with the power cord, but rather the sound circuit which consists of the stylus, cartridge, headshell, tonearm wires, RCA cables, RCA connectors and your amp. If the amp is on and set to phono, there should be sound. First thing is to make sure all connections and wires are snug and clean.
 
Thanks Howard. I will try those things. I really want to put a new belt on it. I saw in another one of your posts where Pioneer sells the belt I need for $12.95. I'll post the results.
 
hakaplan said:
Glad to hear about the cueing.

Incidentally the manual to the very similar PL-41 is over at vinylengine.com.

The platter has probably not been removed in close to 40 years. That is why it is stuck. First try this. Get a small piece of wood that fits between the finger holes on the platter. While you pull up, push down on the wood with both thumbs evenly so that it exerts straight downward pressure on the spindle. If that doesn't work, get a partner. One person pulls up on the platter while the other taps gently on the spindle in a straight downward motion. Use a rubber or wood mallet, or a hammer covered with a towel very carefully. Tapping on the spindle off center or too hard or while the other person is not pulling can result in damage to the bearings. It may take a while, but eventually it will come off.

The line cord may be bad, or there may be no belt, or there is a microswitch that is actuated by the arm that might need adjustment or replacing. The sound has nothing to do with the power cord, but rather the sound circuit which consists of the stylus, cartridge, headshell, tonearm wires, RCA cables, RCA connectors and your amp. If the amp is on and set to phono, there should be sound. First thing is to make sure all connections and wires are snug and clean.
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Howard you are a genius. The small block of wood did the trick. The platter popped right off. Now at this point I'm pretty sure I should see the belt, but there isn't one. I guess the next order of business is to see why it doesn't turn.
 
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