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Trying to wean myself off of tone controls

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MWalt

MWalt

Super Member
After reading much debate here on AK about tone controls or lack of, I have decided to try a main listening setup void of all tone apparatus. I will try this for a week to see if I can condition my ears to a flat setting. My current setup for this experiment is an Adcom GFA 5800 amplifier, Dared SL2000A Tube pre, Infinity Kappa 7's, an Onkyo DX C390 CDP/Gigalab DAC, and switch off between a Music Hall MMF 5.1 or a modded Pioneer PL-41 with a Sumiko FT-3 arm.

Anyone else ever tried this?
 
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Does your preamp have a tone circuit bypass switch? If not you may not be accomplishing much. The idea is that the tone circuitry detracts from the sonics because of the extra elements in the signal path. Without a true bypass switch, those extra elements are still there no matter where the control is set. Regardless, it will be interesting to see what you discover through the experiment.
 
JonL said:
Does your preamp have a tone circuit bypass switch? If not you may not be accomplishing much. The idea is that the tone circuitry detracts from the sonics because of the extra elements in the signal path. Without a true bypass switch, those extra elements are still there no matter where the control is set. Regardless, it will be interesting to see what you discover through the experiment.
Click to expand...

My preamp is a very simple tube pre. Just a volume control. I could easily pop an EQ in between the amp and preamp, but for now it is tone control free.
 
Three out of four 2-ch preamps I use don't have any tone controls.

Proceed PRE
Transcendent Sound Grounded Grid
PassDIY B1
Yamaha C-80

Yamaha C-80 is the lone "tone control" unit.
 
I run three systems, and have four pre-amps to use-

Apt Holman
PSE Studio One
Amber Model 17
Sansui CA-2000

All four have tone controls.

I think I've used the controls on less than a dozen recordings- otherwise always flat.

I often think I could be just as pleased running a tone control free pre-amp, and using a quality EQ instead, for either room correction or that odd, wayward recording.
 
I never use tone controls in fact I use the direct inputs on my pre to bypass all those circuits. This has lead me down a path of optimization in all other areas.

Hang in there Mark, you will never go back.
 
A little tip that helped me get used to listening "flat": If you're missing your normal tone settings, set them opposite of normal (for me this meant cutting highs and lows) for a few minutes, then back to flat. All of a sudden flat sounds good.
 
Why "get used" to something just because that's what someone else likes? Wy not listen to it the way you like it?

Nothing wrong with experimenting and seeing if you like it, but I don't understand the "getting used" to it..
 
If you like the sound with the tone controls, why re-condition your ears to something else? Liking the sound should be what's important, not how settings are positioned.
Mike
 
My int in my main system has no tone. I rarely miss it...maybe on really bad recordings. My yamaha HT receiver has a stereo direct setting...bypassing all tone and processing...and it sounds a MILLION times better that way.
 
I have to use the tone controls because I like having all of my speakers sounding the same.
My Onkyo has 3 tone knobs. One is labeled loudness control which sounds like lifting the bass and treble at the same time, making a brighter sound. Then you got bass and treble knobs.
To please me senses, I basically don't have to use any of the tone controls for my headphones except the loudness control knob I have all the way up no matter what and for some reason my headphones need a little treble boost, so I adjust that.
Now, my Dad's Pioneer CS-907's are a totally different story. The speakers have 5 tweeters, one of them being a horn, and a built in 3-way crossover. To make these speakers sound like your average hi-fi speaker, I have to turn the bass all the way up to +10 and the treble down to -2.5 so its not drilling your ears out. Might be a little ridiculous but they sound pretty darn good after you toy with the tone controls.

To me, tone controls are just a way of refining the sound to make it sound like its supposed to. Nothing extreme, I just use it as a "fix-it" feature.
 
Haven't had any tone controls in the main system for nearly 20 years now...
 
Mark Walters said:
My preamp is a very simple tube pre. Just a volume control. I could easily pop an EQ in between the amp and preamp, but for now it is tone control free.
Click to expand...

I see. When you say you are trying to wean yourself off the tone controls, were you using an EQ or a different preamp that had tone controls?

My last preamp had tone controls that I would have used if they were useful, but they were not. I felt that sometimes (especially at low volume) I would have liked to add a bit of low end, but the tone controls were sort of "all or nothing." As soon as they became active, they did way too much. My current preamp has no tone controls and sounds great just as is.
 
I don't see why, I mean the designers felt that it was a good idea to include them. Truthfully I've found them to be more beneficial than any harm, all recording are not created equal. Some have more bass, harsher highs, and so on. The tone controls allow you to shape the sound in a way that is pleasing to you. If you like them why "get use to" something just because some one else says "this is the way it should be".
 
After I think about my post, I don't use tone controls either. Haven't had them in years and years either.. I've always had an EQ instead. But I would never go without.. sounds too good tweaked to my liking.
 
I've always had to use tone controls. Maybe it's because I listen to lots of different music. Jazz and Blues sound OK flat, but not Metal, Dance, or most Pop. I like hard hitting bass that I can feel in my chest, and a lot of modern recordings have so much compression that the bass drum is often reduced to the sound of a wood block:sigh:

I have heard a couple receivers (mainly Sansui 1000X and 7000) that sounded good flat, but who knows if they had some kind of loudness contour when set "flat".
 
Anti tone control is another irrational "audiophile" myth. Any slight distortion caused by the tone control is swamped by orders of magnitude by distortions introduced by your speakers. Meanwhile without any equalization you most likely have room nodes that are +-6 db, plus the uneven frequency response of the speakers themselves. Real pros in both the recording industry and live sound use lots of EQ and equalize to an equal loudness curve to compensate for the ears increased sensitivity at 800 and 3150 hz.

You recording whether digital or analog were Eqed in the initial mix and then Eqed again in the mastering process. If Eqing does damage the damage is already done and that being the case might as well get the *system* as close to equal perceived loudness for the human ear for your room which involves an Eq.

See my post here for a cheap of way of doing the same process many live sound pros use to tune their systems to the venue for your home system for cheap:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=323439
 
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I've tried going without the treble/bass knobs, but my ears are not what they were, too many loud guitar amps and too many hours spent standing next to loud rock drummers.

I need the treble boost at least to get the instruments to sound they way they're supposed to sound.

Gear colors sound, all the way from the microphone in the studio to your speakers, too. I know how some instruments sound up close, that's what I want to hear.
 
Technically, with flat EQ, you're supposed to be hearing things the way the engineer/producer intended for you to hear them.

Of course, that assumes you're using the same amp and speakers in the same room that the aforementioned people used. And that the media and your interconnects do not color the sound.

So... while I run most of my systems flat, or close to it, if change is needed I change it.
 
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