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Which is best MM or MC?

hogdaddy

hogdaddy

AK Subscriber
Subscriber
Maybe someone can shed some light here. My Denon DP-45F still has the original cartridge and I think my TT would sound much better with another better cart.

At present I am using my Pioneer SA-9800 integrated amp (with JBL L100T speakers). It has 2 phono inputs:
Phono 1- regular
phono 2- has switch on front panel for MM or MC and since my TT cart is MM, I have it swithed there.

The SA-9800 also has 2 other switches on front: Cartridge Load (MM)
1st switch-100,200,300,400,500
2nd switch- 100,10k,25k,50k,100k

For my set-up which cart would be best MM or MC?

I was leaning toward MC but is this really the best for this situation?

Thanks any input most welcome, Mike
 
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where in alabama are you? (I have both style carts you can try out is why I ask). I live 10 miles from the border....
 
It's hard to say without knowing your personal tastes in music and sound, and what the budget for said cartridge would be. Having experimented with both, it's clear to me that I prefer MC cartridges. Both types have their advantages and disadvantages, but IMO and experience MC cartridges tend to do more things right than MM cartridges.

On the other hand, there's no shortage of fantastic MM cartridges out there either. If you have a limited budget, MM is probably the way to go.

With all those settings you could theoretically run even a lower output MC cartridge. Just something to keep in mind.
 
Mr. Lin said:
It's hard to say without knowing your personal tastes in music and sound, and what the budget for said cartridge would be. Having experimented with both, it's clear to me that I prefer MC cartridges. Both types have their advantages and disadvantages, but IMO and experience MC cartridges tend to do more things right than MM cartridges.

On the other hand, there's no shortage of fantastic MM cartridges out there either. If you have a limited budget, MM is probably the way to go.

With all those settings you could theoretically run even a lower output MC cartridge. Just something to keep in mind.
Click to expand...

Most of the setting (2 switches) are for MM carts I believe. Its just the phono 2 selector switch that has either MM or MC.

As for budget maybe $200 or so if it would be much noticeable of difference over say a $100 cart.
 
G'day all, I've tended to avoid these sorts of threads because they can get more than a little 'heated'. However I'll say that I prefer MM's for various practical reasons as higher output (with benefits on preamplification requirements), better tracking abilities (proven dramatically at times with good documentation), better compatibilty with 'typical' tonearms and lastly, the ability to replace the stylus.

I consider this point to be the biggest practical advantage of a moving magnet cartridge, as although I always try to be careful when handling a cartridge, accidents are 'always' a possibility. With a moving coil cartridge 'accidents' of this type invariably tend to be 'expensive'.

As for the 'sound' of moving coil cartridges well although my listening with MC's is limited, I have never thought they were clearly superior in his respect. Regards, Felix aka catman.
 
I do have a MC cart...the AT30E. It honestly blows away all my other ones...but none of them are "high end"....AT13E would be my second best....
 
hogdaddy said:
Most of the setting (2 switches) are for MM carts I believe. Its just the phono 2 selector switch that has either MM or MC.

As for budget maybe $200 or so if it would be much noticeable of difference over say a $100 cart.
Click to expand...

You wouldn't load any MM cartridge at 100 ohms, that's an MC setting.

I wouldn't bother with the whole MC thing if that's your budget. You can get a great MM cartridge for a couple hundred bucks, but at that price point you're looking at bottom of the barrel MC cartridges. That's not to say they're bad (I really liked my Benz MC20E2 H, which was $200), but they're probably not going to blow a comparably priced MM cartridge out of the water, so to speak.

Depending on what kind of sound you typically enjoy, if you'd like we could suggest some good choices from the modern MM cartridge market. There's a lot.
 
lwrs10 said:
I do have a MC cart...the AT30E. It honestly blows away all my other ones...but none of them are "high end"....AT13E would be my second best....
Click to expand...

That is a very special MC cart!
It is one of a special type of MC cartridge that has an user replaceable stylus.
The availability of the original stylus is not clear.
The is an upgrade stylus available for it though.
Not cheap, but available from several sources still.:thmbsp:
One of the source is LPgear;http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=LG&Product_Code=ATSAT0031E
 
Mr. Lin said:
You wouldn't load any MM cartridge at 100 ohms, that's an MC setting.
Click to expand...

Thanks for clearing that up.

Mr. Lin said:
I wouldn't bother with the whole MC thing if that's your budget. You can get a great MM cartridge for a couple hundred bucks, but at that price point you're looking at bottom of the barrel MC cartridges. That's not to say they're bad (I really liked my Benz MC20E2 H, which was $200), but they're probably not going to blow a comparably priced MM cartridge out of the water, so to speak.

Depending on what kind of sound you typically enjoy, if you'd like we could suggest some good choices from the modern MM cartridge market. There's a lot.
Click to expand...

I typically listen to classic rock music and may consider spending more but would need save up for it.

Would this one be good or overkill? Denon DL-301 MKII Phono Cartridge http://www.needledoctor.com/Denon-DL-301-Mk-2-Phono-Cartridge_2
 
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Not sure I agree - the Denon DL103 and DO110 range are budget MC cartridges and are easily comparable to, if not better than, many MM cartridges.
 
I like the DL-110 for it's 'direct' sound and detailed response compared to magnetics in the same price class or greater. They can be found discounted for ca $100 more or less. Well recorded and engineered discs sound great thru it, others will sound as good or bad as they are. It doesn't 'pretty up' crappy recordings the way some smooth and romantic carts do, if most of your fave records lean toward harsh and bright then this may not be for you. It does have an engaging dynamic and clean 'open' quality that many magnetics lack, I'd say it does "blow comparably priced mags out of the water" in that respect and it's relatively insensitive to loading.
The DL-301MkII is a low-output MC that would be a worthwhile refined step up from the entry point DL-110 at but a moderate increase in price, your amp could manage it nicely. I have it's DL-103M predecessor but am not using it at present so cannot comment on it's sound.
 
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hogdaddy said:
For my set-up which cart would be best MM or MC?

I was leaning toward MC but is this really the best for this situation?

Thanks any input most welcome, Mike
Click to expand...
Imv, the most important parts of a cartridge, in order, are diamond, cantilever, body, and finally generator. A cheap body with an advanced stylus can comfortably beat an expensive body with an ordinary stylus.

An advanced stylus has a diamond with better shape than an elliptical has, and is capable of providing from the groove the harmonics of music that make for realism, as opposed to pleasant sounds. That diamond is attached to a cantilever, which must not be a massive, crude lump of metal, but must be able to react fast enough to transfer that better signal without loss or distortion. Likewise, the cartridge body must be capable of being firmly attached to the arm, and must not resonate significantly. Failure to achieve these three design aims means that essential musical signal never reaches the coils of the generator. It doesn't matter much how good a generator is, or where its coils are placed, it can't replace lost signal. Otoh, a generator has to be pretty basic to lose the signal added by an advanced stylus.

Moving coil cartridges are inherently harder to manufacture, cost more, and attract bigger profit margins, so they have received much attention to body materials and cantilever design, because some people can and will pay for those improvements. Imv much of the attraction of MCs is nothing much to do with the MC principle, but the package that often comes with those coils. Moving magnets and moving iron designs, otoh, have for most of their history been presented in plastic or resonant bodies, because they are the market's cheaper alternative, but they really deserve the same level of care that MCs get. It's beginning to happen, too, perhaps because vinyl is being revived as a distinct source with its unique advantages, but not everyone can afford a fancy MC, or sees why it's necessary to do so.

So imv, when buying, it's not "MM or MC?"- it's the best shape of diamond that one can get for the budget- provided that cantilever and body are up to the job.
 
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Forget about MC...

Perhaps HOMC could be in the cards, but forget about MC at your price point. Frankly, the Shure M97xe/JICO combo would come in at your budget and will deliver well beyond most in the $200 range.

Amazon is selling the M97xe for $55, and LPGear have the JICO stylus for $130.
 
Well, I own plenty of MM cartridges, including some very good ones, such as the Stanton 881S, Ortofon OM-40 and Shure V15 Type V, and haven’t found any to compare with a good quality low output MC cartridge. Having said that, my V15/V is better than several MC cartridges I own (low cost ones – eg Ortofon MC-10 Super), but isn’t as good as the best MC’s. But there are problems with many MC’s, which can include low output (requires extra amplification, or a step-up transformer), heavy weight (due to large magnets), low compliance on some models, and non-user replaceable styli (apart from a few AT MC’s). The high output MC’s are OK, but you lose the main advantage of the low output models, which is the very light moving mass they have from having only a few turns of wire on the coils. Those who don’t own a low output MC, I’d urge to buy one to see what you’re missing out on – they are superb!

I’ve included two square wave results from reviews for you to look at – the first is from a Denon DL-303 MC cartridge stepped up by a Denon AU-340 SUT, and the second is from a Shure V15 Type V (the original hyper-elliptical stylus one). Before someone complains that the Shure hasn’t been loaded correctly, it was loaded to obtain the flattest frequency response before they measured it. You can certainly see that the Denon has a better frequency response - it was extremely flat, and went out past 50kHz, which was the limit of the test records they had, and that’s one of the reasons for the better square wave response. The DL-303 is no longer available new, but the cartridge that superseded it, the DL-304, is available from several suppliers, as is the higher DL-S1.
 

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I like Streten's suggestion. The owner's manual for your turntable suggests that the lightweight arm was designed to extract the best performance from high compliance cartridges.
 
To answer the question about whether the DL-301MkII is overkill - I don't think it is. It also has quite a high compliance, similar to many MM cartridges, so should suit your tonearm. You don't really need the compliance to be that much of a good match anyway, because your tonearm has electronic damping (Dynamic Servo Tracer, as Denon call it), which means a much wider range of cartridges can be accommodated. The damping lowers the resonance to only 3dB, so it's not such an issue as it normally is. You're unlikely to find much to match the DL-301 at its price - Denon MC's are extremely good value, and don't tend to have suffered from the "we'd better put our prices up so people think we're reallly good" syndrome!:D
 
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