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Acoustic Research Speaker Shootout

RS Steve

RS Steve

Tube Junkie
Subscriber
After a few years of collecting, and restoring some nice AR model speakers, I decided I would do something very cool and do a comparison. The best part of this is that all I do is push the desired speaker button to instantly switch between them, no hooking / unhooking involved. This gives me the chance to instantly switch from one to another, which is key to hearing the difference.

The reason I decided to do this was because I recently aquired, and fixed a pair of early AR-3a's that really made me wonder about which is the best sounding model. It is very rare to have the chance to do a real comparison, between so many good models.

It would be nice to have a checklist to use, and mark off as I switch through them. Maybe some suggestions from fellow AKers as to a list to use with such things as efficiency, balance, bass, midrange, highs, dynamic range, Imaging, etc. I hope other AK members can chime in with helpful suggestions while I set this all up.

The amp I decided to use for this is a Carver M-500t and Phase Linear 2000 preamp. I will be using my Ipod for the first run through, and the sound tracks will be from Dire Straits, Blues Traveler, Pink Floyd, and Bruce Hornsby.
Next will be spinning vinyl on my SL-1200 to get the impact of modern and old school.

Hope this fun little AR battle will help others get an idea of the different sound of the models involved, that's if you can trust my ears. :D




The Players:

#1 - AR-58B
#2 - AR-48S
#3 - AR-11B
#4 - AR-3a (Alnico woofers)
#5 - Heathkit AS-103a (kit version of AR-3a later model)

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Nice idea, but fraught with potential potholes.
One of the most important things you must do is standardize the volume level as you change from one speaker to the next. You may want to start with the smallest.
Use a pink noise track and measure the loudness with a SPL meter. Once you set the level where you are comfortable with the sound, each subsequent speaker MUST be set to the same level using the same pink noise track BEFORE you go on to your listening comparisons.
BTW, when taking the SPl measurement, the meter MUST be the same distance from each speaker when you do it.

Have fun! Looking forward to your results.
 
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My only suggestion is to ensure that you are not listening to them while they are all in the same room. My suggestion would be to put them all in another room, then pull a pair into the listening room, make your notes, pull them out and swap for another pair. Don't do it with them side by side or with multiple pairs in the same room.
 
You've got some good AR speakers there. Your shoot-out should be fun. :banana:

As has been said, you at least need to find a consistent listening level, that matches across all the speakers. Otherwise, the loudest, highest efficiency speaker is usually picked to be the best sounding, during A/B testing. So, at least use pink-noise (or inter-station FM hiss) and a SPL meter, to set a listening peak for each speaker. Record the volume knob position, that you settle on after level testing; then as you switch between speakers, you can quickly tweak the pre to level match, as you go. :music:

I look forward to the results. Especially between the dome 3-way models. I'm really curious as to how the 3a and 11B compare? :yes:

RS Steve said:
After a few years of collecting, and restoring some nice AR model speakers, I decided I would do something very cool and do a comparison. The best part of this is that all I do is push the desired speaker button to instantly switch between them, no hooking / unhooking involved. This gives me the chance to instantly switch from one to another, which is key to hearing the difference.

The reason I decided to do this was because I recently aquired, and fixed a pair of early AR-3a's that really made me wonder about which is the best sounding model. It is very rare to have the chance to do a real comparison, between so many good models.

It would be nice to have a checklist to use, and mark off as I switch through them. Maybe some suggestions from fellow AKers as to a list to use with such things as efficiency, balance, bass, midrange, highs, dynamic range, Imaging, etc. I hope other AK members can chime in with helpful suggestions while I set this all up.

The amp I decided to use for this is a Carver M-500t and Phase Linear 2000 preamp. I will be using my Ipod for the first run through, and the sound tracks will be from Dire Straits, Blues Traveler, Pink Floyd, and Bruce Hornsby.
Next will be spinning vinyl on my SL-1200 to get the impact of modern and old school.

Hope this fun little AR battle will help others get an idea of the different sound of the models involved, that's if you can trust my ears. :D




The Players:

#1 - AR-58B
#2 - AR-48S
#3 - AR-11B
#4 - AR-3a (Alnico woofers)
#5 - Heathkit AS-103a (kit version of AR-3a later model)
Click to expand...
 
As much as I'd like to do this in a perfect world way, and make it fool proof, that's not going to happen. I simply want to line them up, run them at a certain volume setting, and switch through them to see the difference. But thanks for the suggestions, it can all be refined as I go with using what I have.

The first thing I notice is that the AR-3a, and the Heathkit model are less efficient. The other thing is that the AR-11 seems to be best for nearfield listening. The AR-58B is very close to the AR-11, it just has too much sizzle in the highs, and no L-pad to tone it down. The bass from the AR-3a is lower, very smooth, and less punchy than the others, but seems lacking in midbass.

I'm in the process of picking songs, and using my sound level meter to get a level that evens things up.
 
Sounds like you're doing things the way I would. First, setting the volume then switching through the speakers and noting sound "level" differences. Next check "tonal range" to get some idea of what frequency response is like.

The toughest test, in my mind, is imaging. Each speaker will very likely have a "best" placement, which likely will not be the same for each. So, best you can do is judge by their present position, and where possible adjust toe-in and angling of the speakers.

I'm not sure I'm with you on the midbass. When compared to my other speakers I've noticed that what I can't hear (probably below 30hz) I can certainly feel with the AR3a speakers, just as I can with the Mach One, HPM, etc. But in the region I can clearly make out, I've noticed that the AR3a seem to excel in midbass. To confirm this I played with my EQ settings to narrow down what I was "hearing" vs what I was "feeling". In most cases the difference was showing up in the 160hz-300hz range. I'd have to go back and test to isolate the specific range as I'm going from memory at this point. I consider that mid-bass, and I believe in "musical charts" that range is also identified as mid-bass. With some systems, particularly 4-way, the mid-driver is crossed over around 200mhz (example would be the JBL 250Ti).

As for the test, I think it's cool because it gives people a "common" ground for reference. If they own any one of these speakers, they have a better idea of what they "might" expect from the speakers that they don't have and maybe have thought of owning. So kudos on that.

But you know me, I tend to agree with what you do anyway.
 
RS Steve said:
After a few years of collecting, and restoring some nice AR model speakers, I decided I would do something very cool and do a comparison. The best part of this is that all I do is push the desired speaker button to instantly switch between them, no hooking / unhooking involved. This gives me the chance to instantly switch from one to another, which is key to hearing the difference.

The reason I decided to do this was because I recently aquired, and fixed a pair of early AR-3a's that really made me wonder about which is the best sounding model. It is very rare to have the chance to do a real comparison, between so many good models.

It would be nice to have a checklist to use, and mark off as I switch through them. Maybe some suggestions from fellow AKers as to a list to use with such things as efficiency, balance, bass, midrange, highs, dynamic range, Imaging, etc. I hope other AK members can chime in with helpful suggestions while I set this all up.

The amp I decided to use for this is a Carver M-500t and Phase Linear 2000 preamp. I will be using my Ipod for the first run through, and the sound tracks will be from Dire Straits, Blues Traveler, Pink Floyd, and Bruce Hornsby.
Next will be spinning vinyl on my SL-1200 to get the impact of modern and old school.

Hope this fun little AR battle will help others get an idea of the different sound of the models involved, that's if you can trust my ears. :D




The Players:

#1 - AR-58B
#2 - AR-48S
#3 - AR-11B
#4 - AR-3a (Alnico woofers)
#5 - Heathkit AS-103a (kit version of AR-3a later model)
Click to expand...

AR11 by a landslide. 48, 58, 103/3a (depends on deterioration).

-k
 
You should have thrown in a pair of AR9's mind you it wouldn't be fair then;]....I owned a pair of 9's,3's,3a's and 2ax's...funny only the 2-ax's remain....
 
I didn't have much time this afternoon to do much, but after playing a couple of my favorite tracks while making adjustments, the AR-11's just seem to take it to another level. The AR-48, and 58 are not to far behind. Now just the other day I thought the AR3a's were it, but switching between them all it is clear that the 3a has a darker, less dynamic top end. The Heathkits are very similar as they should, be but with a tighter bass signal.

I just love the 3a's bass, it is deep, smooth and carries through out the house. It is so very different compared to the newer design woofer types, but I swear it doesn't seem to carry the midrange like the newer design.

So far with very little testing, the dark horse is the AR-48 set. I like the highs, and midrange very much, where the 58's have better bass and a way to tinty high end. If you put the 48's top end with the 58's bottom it would be very close to the AR-11.

And lastly, the AR-3a and Heathkit sound better when your 12 to 15 feet back, where the others sound good even close up at 6 to 10 feet.

More to follow.
 
Personally, I wonder how many AR-3a tweeters are still performing up to spec, given the degradation of the materials used in their production. Given that, I'd doubt that the AR-3a will keep up with more modern speakers on the high end.
 
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kirk57 said:
Personally, I wonder how many AR-3a tweeters are still performing up to spec, given the degradation of the materials used in their production.
Given that, I'd doubt that the AR-3a will keep up with more modern speakers on the high end.

Of course, the possibility exists that I'm wrong.
Click to expand...

Unless they have some NOS tweeters somewhere we probably will never know just how far off they get. I know when I was testing them I would cover the mid with a cup and get a good listen to the tweeter, they sounded clean and crisp.

To my ears, the 3a's midrange are not going as low as the others, or the woofer not as high. The farther away you get the less you notice though.

I looked at my notes and see that the AR-58's are the only speaker with original capacitors, not sure if this is the cause of the very crisp highs, or if it is inherent.
 
Good, I'm glad my 11's didn't sell and that I chose to sell my 3s. Looks like I made a good move.:banana:
 
RS Steve said:
Unless they have some NOS tweeters somewhere we probably will never know just how far off they get. I know when I was testing them I would cover the mid with a cup and get a good listen to the tweeter, they sounded clean and crisp.

To my ears, the 3a's midrange are not going as low as the others, or the woofer not as high. The farther away you get the less you notice though.

I looked at my notes and see that the AR-58's are the only speaker with original capacitors, not sure if this is the cause of the very crisp highs, or if it is inherent.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, there is no such thing as a NOS 3a tweeter. Unless they have been stored in a nitrogen atmosphere in a freezer, the suspension materials used in the construction of the tweeter have changed properties substantially. (At least according to my tests.)

-k
 
hatrack71 said:
Good, I'm glad my 11's didn't sell and that I chose to sell my 3s. Looks like I made a good move.:banana:
Click to expand...

Yeah, I have two pair :D, they are amp and location sensitive but when you get it correct it's good.

I have a museum pair that hung in a sound studio their entire life, they just needed a refoam but there is not a mark on them.
 
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