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Acoustic Research Speaker Shootout

Interesting thread and line-up of speakers. I applaud your shoot-out approach in that, like many audio hobbyists, you are simply trying to evaluate some personal preferences based on real-life conditions - - - i.e., your own ears and your own listening environment, rather than with numbers, graphs and sophisticated laboratory measurements.

Even though I think your list of source material (post #1) represents some fine listening, I would never conduct a similar test on my own without having some favorite recordings that include female vocals, orchestral strings, jazz brass and maybe even pedal organ.

Sheesh, if you were able to forgot that you had a pair of AR-12's just lying around, who knows what other speakers may still lurk in a deeper, darker corner of your garage, basement or attic.
 
ra.ra said:
Interesting thread and line-up of speakers. I applaud your shoot-out approach in that, like many audio hobbyists, you are simply trying to evaluate some personal preferences based on real-life conditions - - - i.e., your own ears and your own listening environment, rather than with numbers, graphs and sophisticated laboratory measurements.

Even though I think your list of source material (post #1) represents some fine listening, I would never conduct a similar test on my own without having some favorite recordings that include female vocals, orchestral strings, jazz brass and maybe even pedal organ.

Sheesh, if you were able to forgot that you had a pair of AR-12's just lying around, who knows what other speakers may still lurk in a deeper, darker corner of your garage, basement or attic.
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Yeah Steve, what other equipment have you hiding around there? ;)
 
Copa1934 said:
Yeah Steve, what other equipment have you hiding around there? ;)
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Just a few amps, receivers, preamps, and speakers. And I can say I have fixed most of them myself. :smoke:

They find new homes on occasion, but I enjoy saving the special ones from the land fill.

Man, I'm tuckered out from all this speaker moving. :sigh:
 
Just back from Costco, where I spotted a pair of plastic wireless outdoor speakers with the AR brand on them. How sad. Such a great company it was.
 
RS Steve said:
Everyone knows your guesses are educated though Ken. :thmbsp: :D
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Well, thanks. But, really, circumstances, preferences and application can sometimes change the order of preference a lot. Especially towards the middle of the pack. At least that is my observation.

-k
 
davidro said:
Do u have emotional attachment to any particular model?
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It's hard to explain, but the process that works for best for me is to be very emotionally involved and passionate about a product during development phase. But, then it's done, and my passion moves on to the next idea. I suspect it is an approach I picked up from the artists and writers in my life.

There are some products that I am proud of in terms of the engineering or marketing challenge, or which remind me of significant phases in my life and career. But, this list has nothing to do with sound quality, per se, and probably wouldn't make much sense to others.

-k
 
chicks said:
Just back from Costco, where I spotted a pair of plastic wireless outdoor speakers with the AR brand on them. How sad. Such a great company it was.
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I have an AR wireless outdoor speaker. Y'know what, it's actually a great product! The wireless range is awesome and the sound quality is enjoyable.

Sorry, I know that's off topic. Carry on. :)
 
Copa1934 said:
PM whatever details you can. I'm in the midst of rebuilding the tweeters. Have three units I've dissected and I have a local machinist making some replacement front plates (better for rebuilding and mounting). I have new VC's from MWA that I will be testing with original domes, but I'm still a tad in the dark about what to use for surrounds.

I'd rather discuss offline (PM?) and get your thoughts. I have a thread going and Royc has offered some thoughts, in that thread, already. I'm very close, so thoughts would be appreciated. I honestly believe these will give the tweeters new life and potentially make them better than they are (not necessarily better than when new).
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Oh, RoyC is the go-to guy about this. I doubt I could add much to his knowledge. As I don't do PM's, here are my very brief thoughts:

As you doubtless know, the old tweeters suspended the diaphragm at three points, using small dots of a compliant, foaming adhesive... kind of like a spongier Gorilla Glue. The only way I have been able to come up with for replicating this would be to build a bunch of diaphragms with different amounts and formulations of the material, and test each one to find the proper Q and resonance when assembled. Measurements on each will guide the next batch, so it should be possible to converge pretty quickly on a proper suspension.

I don't have a particular material in mind for the glue, but something rather soft and stable is called for. I'd look around at what is available in a foaming PU, like GG, or perhaps just try diluting GG to see if I could alter its properties in a repeatable way. (The only other type of adhesive that I think would have any chance of succeeding is an industrial, solvent-based, rubber cement, but it would have to be very high viscosity to hold itself in shape while drying.)

I'm very impressed with your effort; tweeters are really difficult to make! Keep in mind that the best driver designers and sample labs on earth very rarely get a design right the first time, even with today's sophisticated design and prototyping tools. Heck, even skilled factories can't make the same tweeter after years of production, without sometimes facing challenging QC reject rates. So, be prepared for a few "spins" of the design to get it dialed in. And let me know if I can be of any assistance.

-k
 
ken kantor said:
It's hard to explain, but the process that works for best for me is to be very emotionally involved and passionate about a product during development phase. But, then it's done, and my passion moves on to the next idea. I suspect it is an approach I picked up from the artists and writers in my life.

There are some products that I am proud of in terms of the engineering or marketing challenge, or which remind me of significant phases in my life and career. But, this list has nothing to do with sound quality, per se, and probably wouldn't make much sense to others.

-k
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I can understand that, thanks Ken for your thoughts. :thmbsp:

I have a soft spot for classic AR speakers probably above all others. It started years ago when my older brother bought a pair of AR-18's after listening to them in an audio store. They ended up in the back seat of his 1972 Dodge Charger hooked to his 100 watt amp. It was unbelievable how good they sounded, they ended up being given to my Step Mom and are still in her house.

Since those early days I have owned 2ax's, 12's, 15's, 18b's, 32b's, 48S's, 58b's, 11's, 11b's, 7's, TSW-410's, 3a's, and the Heathkit versions of the 3a.
It was a lot of fun being able to have my favorites lined up so I could switch between them quickly enough to really hear the differences. It isn't the same as hooking and unhooking, where you can get lost as to what the others sounded like.

It proved to me what I had already figured out as to which I thought sounded best. The AR-11 is supposed to be the best sounding speaker they (AR), ever built at that size. I have their sales ad claiming this. I have come across two pair that spent their entire life in a sound studio thanks to my friend Josh, who builds, and refurbishes studios.

Although I didn't post much about the selection of music I went through for this shootout, I did go through many different types, including classic rock, pop, smooth jazz, country, Norah Jones, and Joe Satriani. The most goose bump type moments were when the Fisher 500-C was used with the 11's, 3a's, and Heathkits. It opened up the highs and mids to another level, I can't even find the words to explain how special certain tracks sounded. Out of all the AR models tested, I was only disapointed with the AR-58b's, mostly because the highs were to bright and without adjustabillity.

Now I get to allow my back ache to calm down, I didn't mention the fact that all these speakers are heavy. :yes:

Thanks to everyone for letting me share this experience, it was fun. :thmbsp:

:ntwrthy: AR-11b
 
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I wonder where my AR91s fit into the grand scheme of things? Haven't listened to them much lately, but I've read somewhere that they were an updated version of the AR3a's. ;)
 
chicks said:
I wonder where my AR91s fit into the grand scheme of things? Haven't listened to them much lately, but I've read somewhere that they were an updated version of the AR3a's. ;)
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There were many modern versions of the 3a over the years, and many sounded great. It is a shame the company changed hands so many times, and lost their unique qualities. I also own a pair of AR-1 High Res. surround sound units for my theatre room, along with the matching center channel, they are truly some of the best I have heard for their purpose.

I think this list of AR history can be of help to many.

http://www.aphenos.net/electronics/speakers/klh/all_ar.htm
 
I dig the old classic ARs but I love the Acoustic Research Classic 30.
It's the most "modern" speaker I have built and designed by a man named Day of Day Sequerra in 1992(3).
 
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The old early version AR3a's here sit pretty close and I'm always amazed at the right-here-in-the-room effect they deliver with well recorded tracks. String instruments in particular are stunningly present. The high and mid ranges are never overbearing unless the track is from a badly enhanced CD like The Best Of Jeff Beck here which is really messed up. I don't think I would like any more high end... and the mid range is very sweet on these. But it is very interesting to know that you find the AR11 to be a superb speaker.
There was a pair of AR11 speakers for sale locally when I started getting gear in 2007 but since I didn't know what they were, I thought it was too much of a gamble to fork over the 300 bucks.
 
luddite said:
The old early version AR3a's here sit pretty close and I'm always amazed at the right-here-in-the-room effect they deliver with well recorded tracks. String instruments in particular are stunningly present. The high and mid ranges are never overbearing unless the track is from a badly enhanced CD like The Best Of Jeff Beck here which is really messed up. I don't think I would like any more high end... and the mid range is very sweet on these. But it is very interesting to know that you find the AR11 to be a superb speaker.
There was a pair of AR11 speakers for sale locally when I started getting gear in 2007 but since I didn't know what they were, I thought it was too much of a gamble to fork over the 300 bucks.
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The AR-11 is just a more modern version of the 3a, they made improvements to original design but didn't stray far from the original. I have not found anyone who liked the 3a but didn't like the 11's. The 3's and 3a's have often been refered to as a little dark sounding, the 11's have a slightly more open sound on the mids and highs. The early 3a woofer sounds nothing like the 11's punchy, very strong woofer. I really like the early 3a woofer, it is something to behold. If anyone has to take a gamble on buying AR-11's, I say roll the dice, I think you would be impressed. But any of the models I tested would do fine, I liked them all.
 
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