$11 Chinese AT3600L Thread Mk. II - Champagne sound on a Beer budget!

I've found that in general cartridges sound best toward the upper range of the manufacturers recommended range but in the case of the AT3600L I found that it sounds very good from 3 grams on up on the Pioneer PL 112D tonearm with no tracking issues so I left it at 3 grams. I think records suffer more wear from too light a tracking force than too much ( within reason) and 3 grams is fine with a conical.
 
Swells said:
Just got my $11 cart in the mail. Received quickly from seller "accessories_mall" based in NY. Came with the AT logo in the nice plastic box with hardware. The seller's description listed tracking force at 1.5-2.0. I am using this currently on a Pioneer PL-12D and started tracking at 1.75 but was getting all kinds of skipping anytime I moved. Set it to 2.0 and still getting tracking issues. Technics suggests 3.5 +/- 1 which is stated above. I am guessing I need to set tracking at 2.5 at least but as I am on the newer side of this I am curious of other's thoughts on tracking force for my set up. Cheers.
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1.75g is definitely too light for that arm/cartridge combo.

I've tracked the AT3600L as light as 2g without problems and it sounded great at 2.5g, but that is table/tonearm dependent. On a table with a heavyish arm like your Pioneer, I'd start at 3g and go from there.

Skipping could also be caused by improper alignment. What method did you use to align the cartridge?
 
Thank you @ejman , I will certainly up the tracking force this evening. @MCM_Fan , thanks as well for the reply. I aligned quickly last night using a quick 49mm measurement and then checked using the Pioneer's overhang gauge. I am a little too far forward (by 1-2 mm) as for some reason I think I maxed out the knock off Technics headshell's screw openings...I was unable to push the cart back any further in the headshell. I need to work out that issue a bit and then final check will be with my Baerwald protractor. Not sure a couple MM overhang issue would have created as much skipping as I was getting.
 
Swells said:
Thanks @Trekkie4 . What confused me was the tracking suggestion by the seller's site. I am obviously giving too much credence to a third party. I will set the tracking to 2.5 later and hope for magic. Thanks!
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I think what has been happening is that the light brigade (by that I mean those people used to really light tracking forces like 1 gram) have had a hard time accepting the modern carts tracking at 2 gram and more. They worry that it will damage their records, but it won't. So, some sellers might be suggesting tracking forces at the light end of the range to keep them happy. The silly thing is that, you will damage a record faster by mistracking at an overly light force, than by using the proper heavier tracking force it was made to be used at.
 
Light Brigade, that's funny. I think sometimes these guys way over think it. There are threads about size of the contact areas for every shape diamond in existence. Threads about advanced shapes chipping and ruining records. Threads about how many plays it takes to damage a record for every shape and VTF. With so much worrying going on, I wonder how can some of these guys possibly be having fun? :dunno: :no:
They can trash a $12 cart playing a $2 record all they want, but with a combo like that you don't worry about **** except enjoying the music. The fact that it sounds decent is just icing on the cake.
 
Hi all. I'm apparently working on moving this thread to page 19...apologies. So I did increase the tracking force to 2.5 and things sound pretty good but still experienced a bit of skipping at a strong footfall. @MCM_Fan , I think you are right that this is probably due to my alignment being off (I am 2-3 mm over the Pioneer PL-12D suggested 49mm stylus tip to washer distance). Problem is that the knock-off Technics headshell I got for the AT3600L does not have enough slot room to achieve the 49mm (it works great on my Technics TT). Does anyone here have a suggestion for a price appropriate headshell to pair with the AT3600L for my Pioneer? Many thanks in advance!
 
This style of headshell https://www.ebay.com/itm/Technics-S...937962?hash=item3d86a494aa:g:AWIAAOSw~65clmga provided the right mounting distance on the tonearm of my Pioneer PL 112D with the cartridge mounted all the way back in the slot. Don't know if it would work for your turntable.

Edit, looking at my collection of headshells I realized that this one https://www.ebay.com/itm/Black-Japa...642304?hash=item5d7d081d40:g:3ukAAOSwo0JWHTyn has slots that go further back than the one I referenced above, so it may work better in your turntable.
 
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Swells said:
Hi all. I'm apparently working on moving this thread to page 19...apologies. So I did increase the tracking force to 2.5 and things sound pretty good but still experienced a bit of skipping at a strong footfall. @MCM_Fan , I think you are right that this is probably due to my alignment being off (I am 2-3 mm over the Pioneer PL-12D suggested 49mm stylus tip to washer distance). Problem is that the knock-off Technics headshell I got for the AT3600L does not have enough slot room to achieve the 49mm (it works great on my Technics TT). Does anyone here have a suggestion for a price appropriate headshell to pair with the AT3600L for my Pioneer? Many thanks in advance!
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Yeah, when I mounted an AT3600L on one of these generic Technics headshells from eBay, I only had about 1mm to spare at the back of the slots with the overhang set to 52mm on a Technics table. So, no way would it have enough travel to achieve the 49mm required overhang for your Pioneer table.

Of course, this one has plenty of travel in both directions, but good luck finding one at a reasonable price:

Orsonic-AV-1-Shure-M73-E-3.jpg


Perhaps try a Pioneer headshell:

ATN3601-E-1.jpg


That's an AT3600L with an ATN3601 stylus installed with the overhang set to 52mm fo a Technics table. As you can see, there is still quite a bit of room left at the rear of the slots. I'll measure it when I have a chance.

In new Pioneer headshells, I have one of these:

Pioneer-Dj-Headshell-1.png


That's a stock photo of a Pioneer cartridge on a Pioneer table (so I assume 49mm overhang). I have one (bought it when I had a $10 off any one item coupon from Amazon). Not as cheap as the generic Technics style headshells, but better built and nicer looking. Here's mine with a vintage Shure cartridge installed and set to an overhang of 52mm:

Automtic-for-the-People-Shure-M32-E.jpg

From that photo, it looks to have a fair bit of room left at the back of the slots, but I haven't tried mounting an AT3600L on it. If you're interested in buying one of those headshells, let me know and I can take a few measurements and see if it's possible to achieve the 49mm overhang with an AT3600L on that headshell.
 
Thanks @ejman . I was talking yesterday to the seller of the second linked headshell and am awaiting measurements from him. @MCM_Fan , thanks as well. Looks like both of the Pioneer carts have plenty of room for 49mm, which one would expect I guess. If you get a chance to measure that would be great. This has been all really helpful!
 
Swells said:
Thanks @ejman . I was talking yesterday to the seller of the second linked headshell and am awaiting measurements from him. @MCM_Fan , thanks as well. Looks like both of the Pioneer carts have plenty of room for 49mm, which one would expect I guess. If you get a chance to measure that would be great. This has been all really helpful!
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I just took some measurements. With the vintage Pioneer magnesium headshell and the AT3600L set for a 52mm overhang, I have 9mm of clearance between the mounting bolts and the rear of the headshell slots. So, you'd easily be able to achieve your desired 49mm overhang with this headshell (with 6mm to spare).

For the new PioneerDJ headshell, I didn't want to unmount my Shure cartridge, so I took multiple measurements and did little math. It looks like you should be able to achieve the desired 49mm overhang with an AT3600L mounted in this headshell with the mounting bolts positioned almost all the way at the rear of the slots, perhaps with a little under a mm to spare. If you can't find anything else with a little more buffer room, you can pick one of those up off Amazon or at your local Guitar Center, double check the fit/alignment and return it if it doesn't improve your tracking issue.
 
likebike23 said:
Light Brigade, that's funny. I think sometimes these guys way over think it. There are threads about size of the contact areas for every shape diamond in existence. Threads about advanced shapes chipping and ruining records. Threads about how many plays it takes to damage a record for every shape and VTF. With so much worrying going on, I wonder how can some of these guys possibly be having fun? :dunno: :no:
They can trash a $12 cart playing a $2 record all they want, but with a combo like that you don't worry about **** except enjoying the music. The fact that it sounds decent is just icing on the cake.
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At least with respect to myself, I think a person can be obsessive about contact area, tracking force, stylus shape, and record wear without having to do any worrying. I just read the test data and buy a cartridge I'm comfortable with. Test data tells me that a .7 mil conical is fine at 3 grams, so I'll want to track the smaller .6 mil and .5 mil styli somewhat lighter than that. For me, then, I'd simply choose the AT91R (vtf range of 1.5-2.5 grams) instead of the AT3600L. I've happily used a Sumiko Oyster at its manufacturer's recommended 2.3 grams (1.5-2.5 range). No worries, just beautiful music. For the past several years I've used a .2 X .7 mil elliptical designed to track at .75 to 1.5 grams. Test data shows this shape is safe up to 1.5 grams, and I've liked mine at 1.35 grams--again, worry-free enjoyment.
 
I have mine tracking at 2.5 grams, using the Shure scale. Much improved SQ overall. Sibilance is way better. My problem is I A/B it with a Shure V15 III.
 
Mine is tracking at 1.5g on my PL600 custom TT.

Changing this to 2g gave things a bit more "ooomph" in the deficient areas......

Highs are very clear & sweet without being sibilant, and upper mids are very detailed. Great imaging. Good definition for a good soundstage.

Not bad lower bass but it verges on muddiness - I think the only other thing missing for me is a bit of a lack upper bass and lower mids.

Thats not really much of a problem considering the price paid for this thing.

Amazing.
 
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Just placed an order for another one, seeing they are still selling for next to nothing.

Not that I need another 3600L, I'm barely even using the one I already have ... but something tells me that sooner or later AT is going to pull a plug on AT-3600 series & replace them with VM series. After all, it comes down to marketing campaign - why would you want to buy AT91 (or similar) cartridge with almost identical values, when you can have 3600L for 1/2, or even 1/3 of its price?
 
Trekkie4 said:
After all, it comes down to marketing campaign - why would you want to buy AT91 (or similar) cartridge with almost identical values, when you can have 3600L for 1/2, or even 1/3 of its price?
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But since the AT3600L is an OEM-only product, there is really no marketing involved; and as long as the companies that are buying it from Audio-Technica aren't demanding a redesign, there is no reason to do so.

After all, even the AT95E has not been officially discontinued yet, even though the new AT-VM95E is supposed to be its replacement.
 
Right, I understand that. Thing is, it will take a while before all the existing stock gets sold/built into the new units (LP60, in particular), after all we are talking thousands and thousands of carts. But once the existing stock dries out, I'm pretty sure that "VM" series will take over the market, replacing not only AT91, 95E & other models but the OEM ones as well.

And I can assure you that when it finally happens, AT will make sure to either limit the cart supply exclusively to other companies, or give up OEM licensing entirely due to the fact they are losing too much money this way. Here, let's take 3600L as an example - Audio Technica sells a replacement stylus, JUST the stylus alone without the cart, for 19 USD through their official website... At the same time I just bought the entire thing, a complete assembly for 11 USD... Of course, I could be entirely wrong, this is just my personal opinion, but it would make sense (and help explain previous marketing decisions, so far)
 
doctorolds said:
Was your purchase from an ePay seller? If you recommend them please list the seller name.
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No, I got mine through AliExpress... Just like the other, 1st one. I remember that it came shipped in a plastic bag, without the box, container. TBH, I was surprised that it hadn't been damaged or crushed any way, but everything worked out fine :)
 
I just ordered one of these a few days ago, even though I needed another cartridge like I need a hole in the head.:D It will probably go on my garage system TT when we get moved in our new house. It will be interesting to compare it to my CN5625AL.
 
I also pulled the trigger on on two of them for testing on different tables. Got head shells on order for my Technics and Pioneer tables and will see how they are. Looking forward to setup my first cartridge from scratch since the tables had theirs installed and alignment is good on both.
 
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