1970's European Receivers/Amps....any good..??
- Thread starter Quadrocker
- Start date
guiller
Toscaninichus Australis
It has a style resembling Philips or even early Tandberg gear,
You are absolutely right, and it reminds me also of my B&O Beomaster 3000 and Beomaster 4000!
Pepa
Well-Known Member
My little contribution...
I had several European receivers,and this two come to my mind first.
Revox B-780,from 1980'
Beautiful, warm sound.For many years was the reference receiver in the European hi-fi press.80 watt per channel /8ohms RMS,17 kg.
Really must have for monster receiver collector.
Some pictures of my last Revox:
and Grundig R-2000
I had that receiver twenty years ago.50 watt per channel /8ohms RMS,and arround 15 kg.At the same time Marantz 2252b (mine) and Sansui G-9000 (from friend of mine) was on shelf for testing purpose.Speakers was some small standmount, 2way, AR model.Can not remember which one.Sound of that ugly duck was far,far away better then Marantz (sorry Marantz fans),and very close to Sansui to my ears.More tube like,while Marantz sound too harsh to me.But must admit,none of them have been restored.
OK,some images borrowed from web:
regards,
Robert
I had several European receivers,and this two come to my mind first.
Revox B-780,from 1980'
Beautiful, warm sound.For many years was the reference receiver in the European hi-fi press.80 watt per channel /8ohms RMS,17 kg.
Really must have for monster receiver collector.
Some pictures of my last Revox:
and Grundig R-2000
I had that receiver twenty years ago.50 watt per channel /8ohms RMS,and arround 15 kg.At the same time Marantz 2252b (mine) and Sansui G-9000 (from friend of mine) was on shelf for testing purpose.Speakers was some small standmount, 2way, AR model.Can not remember which one.Sound of that ugly duck was far,far away better then Marantz (sorry Marantz fans),and very close to Sansui to my ears.More tube like,while Marantz sound too harsh to me.But must admit,none of them have been restored.
OK,some images borrowed from web:
regards,
Robert
Some Sixties gear!
Above a Saba "Freudenstadt Stereo E" from 1969, it was the last tube receiver of Saba, and it was no hybride like most of that stuff from the mid sixties on.
Below a Telefunken Concertino 2380 from 1962, the first tube receiver of Telefunken, before that they only offered tube radios.
Upon it a small fine Beomaster 901 from 1969. Only moderate performance, but neat.
The Telefunken currently doesent work but the Saba sounds absolutely terrific with sixties speakers (Westra, a german brand).
Above a Saba "Freudenstadt Stereo E" from 1969, it was the last tube receiver of Saba, and it was no hybride like most of that stuff from the mid sixties on.
Below a Telefunken Concertino 2380 from 1962, the first tube receiver of Telefunken, before that they only offered tube radios.
Upon it a small fine Beomaster 901 from 1969. Only moderate performance, but neat.
The Telefunken currently doesent work but the Saba sounds absolutely terrific with sixties speakers (Westra, a german brand).
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Quadrocker
Active Member
Never seen the Thorn Ferguson before or the Grundig R-2000. I got a chance to hear one of the 1980's Revox amps from the same era as B-780 Receiver and it sounded very nice....
I'm not sure how common the Revox amps and Receivers are in Europe but they very very rarely turn up for sale here in Australia, and are very expensive when they do.
I'm not sure how common the Revox amps and Receivers are in Europe but they very very rarely turn up for sale here in Australia, and are very expensive when they do.
Revox is absolutely common in Germany. Check Ebay Germany inclusive "Completed listings".
Amps, receivers, Cd-players, anything you want. Not cheap (it is as everybody knows top vintage quailtiy) but definitely not rare.
Amps, receivers, Cd-players, anything you want. Not cheap (it is as everybody knows top vintage quailtiy) but definitely not rare.
Quadrocker
Active Member
For anyone interested...here's a Dutch site I found with lots of interesting vintage Euro stuff (...mostly Phillips), including a few entries with service manuals....
http://www.oudio.nl/
http://www.oudio.nl/
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The brand DUAL is known for turntables, even in USA, but they also built some fine receivers and amplifiers especially in the late seventies.
Here you see my DUAL CR 1780, 90 WPC (upon it a B&O tt), there was also an amplifier in the same design, DUAL CV 1700 with 110 WPC, the most powerful german amp in those days.
I sold mine two years ago, so I cant present a picture of it any more.
Here you see my DUAL CR 1780, 90 WPC (upon it a B&O tt), there was also an amplifier in the same design, DUAL CV 1700 with 110 WPC, the most powerful german amp in those days.
I sold mine two years ago, so I cant present a picture of it any more.
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Michael Powers
Super Member
This is the understatement of the year.
I would never ask a technician to repair my Beomaster 8000. Technically, this monster receiver is a nightmare.
But my Beomaster 3000 is working perfectly without repair since 1969.
Generalization is nothing I could recommand!
But my Beomaster 3000 is working perfectly without repair since 1969.
Generalization is nothing I could recommand!
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hatrack71
distracted by everything
I have been looking at a lot of British hifi lately and like the vintage offerings from Quad, Rogers, Leak and Beard. The tubed Revox amplifiers also have me very interested due to the ultra cool look the gear has. I guess I just like the Euro look. That's what finally persuaded me to buy 3 Quad QC IIs, 3 Quad IIs, and a Quad 22 which I will restore over the winter. I am looking at purchasing a Rogers Cadet III- the one with separate pre and power amp in one case. Looks like a great tube bedroom amp.
Hello yourself.
Philips 720 from 1972/3. FM/AM bands including shortwave. Class A/B which I am told means it is class A at low volumes then switches to class B as you turn the volume up. 30 watts "sine" 40 watts "peak" per channel into 4 ohms. Weighs around 11 Kilos.
http://www.magnatmuseum.nl/Vissenogen Serie/720 new.htm
The sound is very good. When Japanese Hi-Fi equipment first started to sell in the U.K. some Hi-Fi buffs talked it down as being "too harsh" and "more attuned to Japanese than European ears". I've a universal voltage Pioneer SA-8800; overhauled by a friend of mine and switching between the two I think shows what they mean. The Pioneer plays hard edged music very well; channel separation is the best I've heard and when watching a DVD, it sometimes does that weird trick of making background sounds seem to come from beyond the speakers. Run the sound-track from Stephen King's "The Stand" through it and detail in the music stands out brilliantly, especially the steel guitar but this very brilliance can make some voices sound a touch sibilant.
Play the same piece through the Philips and the treble seems to have been pulled back just enough to lose the sibilance, the guitar notes stand out well, but not quite as stark. Plus the Philips does not have the same very low end response that the Pioneer has. Both have their good points; neither sounds bad in any way, but it's interesting to hear the different ways they each handle the same music.
Philips 720 from 1972/3. FM/AM bands including shortwave. Class A/B which I am told means it is class A at low volumes then switches to class B as you turn the volume up. 30 watts "sine" 40 watts "peak" per channel into 4 ohms. Weighs around 11 Kilos.
http://www.magnatmuseum.nl/Vissenogen Serie/720 new.htm
The sound is very good. When Japanese Hi-Fi equipment first started to sell in the U.K. some Hi-Fi buffs talked it down as being "too harsh" and "more attuned to Japanese than European ears". I've a universal voltage Pioneer SA-8800; overhauled by a friend of mine and switching between the two I think shows what they mean. The Pioneer plays hard edged music very well; channel separation is the best I've heard and when watching a DVD, it sometimes does that weird trick of making background sounds seem to come from beyond the speakers. Run the sound-track from Stephen King's "The Stand" through it and detail in the music stands out brilliantly, especially the steel guitar but this very brilliance can make some voices sound a touch sibilant.
Play the same piece through the Philips and the treble seems to have been pulled back just enough to lose the sibilance, the guitar notes stand out well, but not quite as stark. Plus the Philips does not have the same very low end response that the Pioneer has. Both have their good points; neither sounds bad in any way, but it's interesting to hear the different ways they each handle the same music.
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Quadrocker
Active Member
A lot of them at "loudness" built in, but there are some nice units!
I have a Braun Braun regie 510. Its doing office radio duty. Some people would kill for the design, but its not really me.
You don't often see the Braun stuff...
They have a unique, stark futuristic look that's acquired taste for many, and somewhat inspirational for others (..rumor has it that Apple Computer used the look of some of Braun's 60's & 70's components as inspiration for the simple, functional look of some of their product line)...thanks for posting a image of the regie 510..!!...
Quadrocker, thanks for the link. I now have a schematic for my Phillips 591 amplifier (which is in daily use in my office). Very cool.
As for Braun stuff, my dad was involved in advertising for the company that distributed Braun in Canada way back when, and I still have a Braun turntable and Braun three-way speakers that are part of my main system. The German sound is different than the Japanese, and I think never got the respect it deserved because of it, but the build quality is impeccible.
As for Braun stuff, my dad was involved in advertising for the company that distributed Braun in Canada way back when, and I still have a Braun turntable and Braun three-way speakers that are part of my main system. The German sound is different than the Japanese, and I think never got the respect it deserved because of it, but the build quality is impeccible.
Quadrocker
Active Member
I think Braun might have been the pioneer for that Modern, minimalistic look in hi-fi. Armstrong in the UK tried a version of it with thier first range of solid state stuff in 1967/68 but the components just looked a bit too futuristic for the British public to take to, and the company quickly restyled the next range...only a year or so later...very conservatively.
Below is an image of the Armstrong 426 Receiver (1967/68)...Note, there ain't too many of these floating around..!! and I believe these models are mostly identical inside, to the next (..conservative looking and ironically "award winning")..range that replaced them...
This (slightly tidied up) image originally from the Armstrong entry in wikipedia.
Below is an image of the Armstrong 426 Receiver (1967/68)...Note, there ain't too many of these floating around..!! and I believe these models are mostly identical inside, to the next (..conservative looking and ironically "award winning")..range that replaced them...
This (slightly tidied up) image originally from the Armstrong entry in wikipedia.
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Thornblade
New Member
Best sounding i have - Grundig RTV 600 from 69-70 (RTV 650 was about the same, the next model) and Saba 8100k from around 74-75, they both sound fantastic. The Grundig is more focused on the tuner part (where the hell in an other receiver can you see a sensitivity of 0.7 uV /26db SNR on FM?) and the Saba (while also having a respectable 1.1 uV/30db SNR) is excelling on the sound side - bass, treble and presence sliding pots, loudness built in ( but it has a linear switch). The bass adjustment is at 40 Hz +-10dB, at maximum with some good speakers you can feel it in your lung, it really hits you.
Thornblade
New Member
Some few years later... now I have, in order of manufacturing:
- a SABA HIFI Studio Freiburg Stereo - 1967, remote controllable, with some huge motors in it, it has an automatic motor tuning, 27 kilograms, lots of metal in it, it is an absolute MONSTER, it is probably the biggest commercial/consumer receiver ever made, only Germanium transistors, made in West Germany of course, and packed of quirky special knobs and functions. If you can find it, buy it, no matter what. Mine came as defective but it was just dirty contacts. It worked fine with the original parts. I did replace the electrolitic capacitors in the end and some final audio transistors which i blew by mistake.
a video of it:
- a SABA HIFI Studio 8120 - from around 1970-73, their top of the line for that time, it has 8 2n3055 final transistors, sounds fantastic, also the radio part is excellent.
- A SABA 9260 - from around 1979 - their last top of the line receiver, after that SABA was bankrupt and a ghost of its former self, bought by Thomson, and was selling "Thomson" stuff, which was actually 100% Asian mid-fi merchandise with just the labels changed.
The 9260 also sounds fantastic, it is their most powerful receiver, 2x80W at 4 ohms, varicap tuner with digital display.Although extremely complex in its schematic, it is very service friendly designed, I was able to bring it back to life.
So yeah, the top tier SABA stuff from the 60s and 70s was absolutely world class top tier. I can recommend them gladly to anyone. And it still stands high today against much gear designed for "audiophools".
- a SABA HIFI Studio Freiburg Stereo - 1967, remote controllable, with some huge motors in it, it has an automatic motor tuning, 27 kilograms, lots of metal in it, it is an absolute MONSTER, it is probably the biggest commercial/consumer receiver ever made, only Germanium transistors, made in West Germany of course, and packed of quirky special knobs and functions. If you can find it, buy it, no matter what. Mine came as defective but it was just dirty contacts. It worked fine with the original parts. I did replace the electrolitic capacitors in the end and some final audio transistors which i blew by mistake.
a video of it:
- a SABA HIFI Studio 8120 - from around 1970-73, their top of the line for that time, it has 8 2n3055 final transistors, sounds fantastic, also the radio part is excellent.
- A SABA 9260 - from around 1979 - their last top of the line receiver, after that SABA was bankrupt and a ghost of its former self, bought by Thomson, and was selling "Thomson" stuff, which was actually 100% Asian mid-fi merchandise with just the labels changed.
The 9260 also sounds fantastic, it is their most powerful receiver, 2x80W at 4 ohms, varicap tuner with digital display.Although extremely complex in its schematic, it is very service friendly designed, I was able to bring it back to life.
So yeah, the top tier SABA stuff from the 60s and 70s was absolutely world class top tier. I can recommend them gladly to anyone. And it still stands high today against much gear designed for "audiophools".