1977 Buyers Guide Reports best buy systems
- Thread starter Maxell Guy
- Start date
I remember that . HIFI House in State College had those system prices all the time .
In 1977 CR could have sent a teen-aged intern (with no negotiation skills) down any metropolitan block with cash in hand and the intern would have easily purchased any of the items in the OP for a fraction of the retail price. You are right though, it doesn't matter what CR paid, what matters is what everybody else paid.
If I'm wrong then heck, as a teenager I must have had incredible powers of persuasion because without too much trouble I'd walk into any mid-fi store and walk out with gear for pennies on the (retail) dollar. I had gear that was comparable to some of the better systems in the OP's list and at the time I was in school and had a part-time job stocking shelves at a pharmacy. No need to wait for deals, everything was on deal. Unfortunately, I don't think I had the same mojo when I bought my first car though.
Keep in mind, there was no internet, less conglomerate holding companies and at least in some areas of NYC there were more independent audio retailers on one block (each with stacks of inventory they had to move) than there are on the entire island of Manhattan today. There's a big difference when you are the middle-man in a "drop ship" transaction versus when you actually already own the item (in inventory) that you are trying to sell before the next batch arrives.
We didn't have to wait for deals and close-outs or be savvy shoppers to pay way less than retail for mid-fi audio. All you needed was a pulse and cash in hand.
RamblinE
(╯°□°)╯彡┻━┻
I'm sorry. I know I wasn't there back then to counter your recollection with my own but "pennies on the retail dollar" just sounds so unlikely. How did anybody make money back then? No wonder all of the brick and mortar retailers went out of business. You're making it sound like shops were giving these things away and that's the part I just simply fail to believe.
Maxell Guy
New Member
This book isn't Consumer Reports it's Buyers Guide Reports. Chains like Playback, Pacific, and volume discounters like Musicraft had relationships with Pioneer, Dual, Garrard, Sansui, kenwood Sony, and JBL and bought in bulk and advertised strongly with hot deals or draw items on TV and the Newspaper. You come in for hot buys and they could sell you a system or even try to sell you on more TOL items. You could bargain with guys on extras like carts and upgrades. I bought my Dual 506 without the P- mount cart and got a discount. This book has a PL 510 at $200 and a Sx -650 for $300 no way. I paid $200 for a 636 in '75. The small independents sold the real high end stuff and they were experts and audiophiles wanted quality not price. I'm far from an expert, I was just annoying kid that hung around these places in awe.
Yea sorry EPI not EFI. Muscraft sold EPI 180s for 129 each in '79 and Koss Pro 4aa for 29.88.
Rich
Yea sorry EPI not EFI. Muscraft sold EPI 180s for 129 each in '79 and Koss Pro 4aa for 29.88.
Rich
Maybe he can get his story notarized .
Why doubt him . He gave you the time , location and circumstances .
Well, he didn't actually. I was there too. At least buying audio gear back when there was an audio store in ever block downtown. No one had 80% to give off of gear. It just didn't happen.Maybe he can get his story notarized .
Why doubt him . He gave you the time , location and circumstances .
Notarized? Nah. But copies of receipts would be fine. I still have some of mine left.
Time , location and circumstances . It's all there . And who said 80 % ? Too petty for me .
Anything approaching half price for a Sansui AU-20000 (note the purchase date 12/15/77) one year into a four year production run classifies as pennies on the dollar in my book. That's a recollection supported by proof.
We have to be very careful that we are using an accurate starting number when we compound 37 years of inflation on a dollar amount. Otherwise the results will be severely skewed.
We have to be very careful that we are using an accurate starting number when we compound 37 years of inflation on a dollar amount. Otherwise the results will be severely skewed.
Anything approaching half price for a Sansui AU-20000 (note the purchase date 12/15/77) one year into a four year production run classifies as pennies on the dollar in my book. That's a recollection supported by proof.
We have to be very careful that we are using an accurate starting number when we compound 37 years of inflation on a dollar amount. Otherwise the results will be severely skewed.
Great documentation.
I'm assuming $654 was a very good price for the Sansui. What was the "MSRP" on that anyway?
I agree, some pretty decent discounts (to MSRP) from "big house" brands - ie: Pioneer, Technics etc - from "big box" retailers - was pretty much the norm back in the day and occasional sales lowered those prices even further. Further still, discontinued items which sometimes would lower the price to 50% off MSRP, sometimes even lower than that.
I do recall seeing a receipt for a Pioneer SX 1980 ($1,250 MSRP) for around $600-and-change.
However, many here would quickly point out that such discounting was far less often the case among smaller "boutique" shops specializing in high end gear.
Last edited:
usedto
Lunatic Member
Here in Central Ca in the late 70s and early 80s, stereo equipment was the hot ticket, and shops popped up all over the place. Radio Shack, Pacific Stereo, Lombard's Lafayette, Sun Stereo, Federated, and on and on. Around here, equipment was selling like hotcakes, so deals were OK but not rare deals. Here's my original purchase invoice. I drove 60 miles to Sacramento to make the purchase of the original system at 26% off - the best deal I could find. I got a better deal, though, on the Sansui SC1330 Cassette deck and Dual turntable in Modesto, about 15 miles away. I bought those the next week.
By the way, the MSRP prices on the invoice are in line with the Sansui database.
By the way, the MSRP prices on the invoice are in line with the Sansui database.
Last edited:
dshoaf
That high voltage buzz
Ok, folks, I'll try to put some perspective on the sell side of gear back in the mid-70s:
- Discounts:
a) It did, indeed, depend a lot on who the seller was. Discount houses (aka: mail order) to be able create the perception they were creating 'pennies on the $$' pricing. They were, in fact, buying in large quantities so they could keep their sales costs to a minimum and maintain an operating profit to stay in business.
b) In the mid-70s, there were small chains and individual audio retailers; mostly locally-owned. These guys didn't have the economies of scale, purchased in smaller quantity and had to maintain 30-40 basis points of margin just to stay in business and cover all operating costs. Worse, their purchase costs of product was higher and, when added to the 30-40 points, their negotiating position was never going to compete with the mail order outfits. Their only value add was local service and support, that did not come with most mail order firms.
- High margin components vs low margin components
a) Most brand name items such as speakers, receivers and turntables all carried low margins for the dealer. This is what buyers came to see and touch. The brand names had big ads in all the audio magazines, ran lots of marketing campaigns and took steps to protect their brand at all costs.
b) Many of the add-on items, however, held very high margins. This included cartridges, dust covers, speaker wire, vinyl cleaning kits. BTW, we still see this today in Best Buy where there are Home Theater kits of doo-dahs. Big time margin.
c) Also, by the mid-70s there were also high-margin speakers, known as private-label brands, that sounded good to the layman buyer's ear. Buyers, however, would never find a word about them in the magazines of the day, nor would they find product reviews. Phono cartridges were also high margin items. Retail/MSRP pricing vs actual dealer cost was on the order of a couple of 100's percent, in fact. Lots of margin to work with.
- Selling a system vs selling separates
a) As the original topic of this thread, creating complete systems was a very successful sales tactic both for the buyer and the dealer. For the buyer, it took the guess work out of buying a complete stereo system - most buyers of the systems list in the OP's initial post didn't want to understand the details. For the seller, combining separate components into a system price allowed them to use some high margin items along with some low margins.
b) Creating a stereo system allowed the dealer to add all of the list prices together and then discount the whole package in one price. By building systems at specific price points, the dealer could then create the perception that there was a big discount involved. In fact, if was the high margin items in the bundle that made up the majority of the discount.
c) System pricing allowed the buyer to self-select the system, which then helped the dealer's sales guy to narrow down choices. This made the buying decisions more satisfying because the buyer could establish value for the whole package. It was a simple purchasing decision.
- Brand name companies insisting on no discounting? Yep but....
a) Yes, there were some companies who valued their brand name to the point they would demand that a dealer agree not to discount the product in order to be listed as a dealer for that brand.
b) Smart dealers were quick to sign up if discussion of the bundling/system pricing was conveniently left out of the reseller agreement.
This was the way audio products were sold, folks, at least from my perspective as the college student/sales guy standing on the other side of the counter when you walked through the door.
Cheers,
David
- Discounts:
a) It did, indeed, depend a lot on who the seller was. Discount houses (aka: mail order) to be able create the perception they were creating 'pennies on the $$' pricing. They were, in fact, buying in large quantities so they could keep their sales costs to a minimum and maintain an operating profit to stay in business.
b) In the mid-70s, there were small chains and individual audio retailers; mostly locally-owned. These guys didn't have the economies of scale, purchased in smaller quantity and had to maintain 30-40 basis points of margin just to stay in business and cover all operating costs. Worse, their purchase costs of product was higher and, when added to the 30-40 points, their negotiating position was never going to compete with the mail order outfits. Their only value add was local service and support, that did not come with most mail order firms.
- High margin components vs low margin components
a) Most brand name items such as speakers, receivers and turntables all carried low margins for the dealer. This is what buyers came to see and touch. The brand names had big ads in all the audio magazines, ran lots of marketing campaigns and took steps to protect their brand at all costs.
b) Many of the add-on items, however, held very high margins. This included cartridges, dust covers, speaker wire, vinyl cleaning kits. BTW, we still see this today in Best Buy where there are Home Theater kits of doo-dahs. Big time margin.
c) Also, by the mid-70s there were also high-margin speakers, known as private-label brands, that sounded good to the layman buyer's ear. Buyers, however, would never find a word about them in the magazines of the day, nor would they find product reviews. Phono cartridges were also high margin items. Retail/MSRP pricing vs actual dealer cost was on the order of a couple of 100's percent, in fact. Lots of margin to work with.
- Selling a system vs selling separates
a) As the original topic of this thread, creating complete systems was a very successful sales tactic both for the buyer and the dealer. For the buyer, it took the guess work out of buying a complete stereo system - most buyers of the systems list in the OP's initial post didn't want to understand the details. For the seller, combining separate components into a system price allowed them to use some high margin items along with some low margins.
b) Creating a stereo system allowed the dealer to add all of the list prices together and then discount the whole package in one price. By building systems at specific price points, the dealer could then create the perception that there was a big discount involved. In fact, if was the high margin items in the bundle that made up the majority of the discount.
c) System pricing allowed the buyer to self-select the system, which then helped the dealer's sales guy to narrow down choices. This made the buying decisions more satisfying because the buyer could establish value for the whole package. It was a simple purchasing decision.
- Brand name companies insisting on no discounting? Yep but....
a) Yes, there were some companies who valued their brand name to the point they would demand that a dealer agree not to discount the product in order to be listed as a dealer for that brand.
b) Smart dealers were quick to sign up if discussion of the bundling/system pricing was conveniently left out of the reseller agreement.
This was the way audio products were sold, folks, at least from my perspective as the college student/sales guy standing on the other side of the counter when you walked through the door.
Cheers,
David
Anything approaching half price for a Sansui AU-20000 (note the purchase date 12/15/77) one year into a four year production run classifies as pennies on the dollar in my book. That's a recollection supported by proof.
We have to be very careful that we are using an accurate starting number when we compound 37 years of inflation on a dollar amount. Otherwise the results will be severely skewed.
All there in black and white . I can't understand some people here . They don't need proof for the "different" sound of wires and such and yet , the concept of deep discounts was beyond them until actual proof is shown .
Thank you Vintagear
Back in the mid seventies when the 50 series Pioneer receivers were out. I decided to research and purchase a new redeiver. I subscribed to Stereo reveiw so I had done weeks of price research from all the discounters advertised in the magazine.
The retail price for the Pioneer SX-750 was $399. The mail order discounters had it for as low as $279. I ended up driving about 100 miles to a discount dealer in Columbia SC for $288. I avoided shipping and possible damage and just spent a little on gas. So 30% below retail for individual pieces was not too unusual at that time. Franksta
The retail price for the Pioneer SX-750 was $399. The mail order discounters had it for as low as $279. I ended up driving about 100 miles to a discount dealer in Columbia SC for $288. I avoided shipping and possible damage and just spent a little on gas. So 30% below retail for individual pieces was not too unusual at that time. Franksta
canuckaudiog
On a quest for high fidelity
That needs some qualification though. Was it brand new, or was it a used, demo unit, repaired unit, etc? There may be a reason for the heavy discount. Perhaps it was the end of production for this unit and it was the last one they had and needed to get rid of it?
There are many reasons for discounting - in general though you aren't going to get steep discounts like that.
Anyway this is getting totally off topic, don't you agree? I do enjoy seeing what the dollar amounts equate to in today's money with inflation. I know it's not totally accurate but it does paint a picture of what this stuff might have cost you in today's wages. Thanks for posting this, it's neat to see old audio literature.