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1983 Cornwall I crossover choice

ASPEC

ASPEC

Aspiring Auddict
Subscriber
Good morning all,
Had the pleasure of hearing "The Wall" on a pair of seven foot tall Mcintosh speakers this weekend so I decided to go home and listen to said album on my system while the experience was still fresh and well, it is clearly time to service my beloved Cornwalls.

As the title states we are dealing with 1983 Cornwall 1's with the B2 crossover. They are unmolested and contain the following drivers:

K-77-M Tweeter
K-33E Woofer
K-51-V Squawker (yes K-51-V)

My question(s) are:

Do I just re-cap the B2's?
Do I replace the B2's with new B2's?
Do I replace the B2's with new B3 crossovers?
What if any advantages does the B3 crossover offer over the B2 with the drivers I have?

All of the drivers currently function but I am not opposed to installing new diaphrams (Probably going to...)

I look forward to everyone's input, thank you in advance.


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My suggestions …
  1. loosen and re-tighten all screws.
  2. A squirt of De-Oxit on the connections wouldn’t hurt
  3. replace the gasket (if one exists) between the midrange driver and horn
  4. recap the existing network (even though the caps might be OK, they're over 40 years old)
 
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It's time for a new crossover. You can get a refresh kit, a whole new crossover, or a new style.
If these were my speakers, would build an "ALK" network for them, or purchase one from Crites.
If you just get a cheap refresh kit, it will sound so much better!
 
You don’t have the right drivers for the Type B3.

Replace the tweeter with Dave’s SMAHL.
Get my 4500x Network.

Horns sound like horns. It will sound great, but completely different than those big MacIntosh.
 
The first reply is correct the big Mcintosh line arrays all respond an Octave lower than your Cornwalls. They also have the clarity of line array with out the horns sound of the type 1 Cornwall. I know I lived with a pair that my room mate had while in college in his man cave. The Mac speakers take almost 20 to 40 times the power to match your Cornwall capabillities. I know I have a pair of those 7 foot tall Mac line arrays.

But if you replace your caps and voice your speakers as I suspect the owner of the line arrays did the sound quality will be very much improved with your Cornwalls. I must have installed over 30 pair of series I Cornwalls and a few of the Series II also before moving to the engineering department. If people used Cornwalls with Hersey for Home Theatre, most of the time with proper placement the owners really didn't need subs using the voicing systems in Their AVR's. Of course having the correct subs can make a quite a difference. But they can't be cheap ones if they are to complement your updated Cornwalls.

You don't say which electronics you have. But they can make a bit of a difference, too. Old electronics like old speakers need to be updated with new caps etc., too. Maybe you can borrow or audition a modern integrated amp with a good DAC and processing to make the sound of your Cornwall speakers be all they should be in your acoustic space. But recap the Cornwalls first. 70 watts a channel is more than enough for a Cornwall pair. Most of the Time you will be using less than 2 watts. Thats 101 db between two speakers or about 90 db at 10 to 12 feet. And thats loud for most folks. C weighted and fast response time on a professional sound level meter.
 
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Dave MacKay said:
My suggestions …
  1. loosen and re-tighten all screws.
  2. A squirt of De-Oxit on the connections wouldn’t hurt
  3. replace the gasket (if one exists) between the midrange driver and horn
  4. recap the existing network (even though the caps might be OK, they're over 40 years old)
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All good suggestions, Thank you.

Deang said:
You don’t have the right drivers for the Type B3.
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Copy that, Thank you.

twiiii said:
You don't say which electronics you have....
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Thank you for the response. Currently driving them with a fresh Yamaha M-80, which I hope would be more than adequate. Source was a Yamaha GT-750 turntable with a Nagaoka MP-200 cart and MP-500 stylus with about 30 hours on them.

I also have a Bluesound Node that I will use to double check with the high res digital version of The Wall just to compare.

I believe the difference I heard was not between horns and line array (they do sound different) but the overall clarity of the upper mids and highs. Imagine throwing a light blanket over the Mcintosh's, that is what my Cornwalls sounded like in comparison. This is what got my attention and led me to decide on a re-cap. I don't believe I will ever need a sub to compliment the low end (but others may know more than I), they seam to be very tight and deep.

I appreciate everyone's input. Thanks again.
 
ASPEC said:
service my beloved Cornwalls.
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get rid of the metal cans before they start leaking in your speakers , deang , crites , alk networks are a waste of money , you need new capacitors , you dont need new networks , no need to open drivers unless there is a problem , this can damage older diaphragms in some cases .
 
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SANSUI1 said:
get rid of the metal cans before they start leaking in your speakers , deang , crites , alk networks are a waste of money , you need new capacitors , you dont need new networks , no need to open drivers unless there is a problem , this can damage older diaphragms in some cases .
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Um, five posts in 11 years and only two of those contained actual words... I am honored to have been one of them?

Deang said:
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Dean, who did y'all p**s off to bring our friend out of their tree?
 
It wasn’t horrible advice. If you like the vintage Klipsch sound, then sure, stay put. Update the capacitors and be done - but your post sounded like you might be looking for something more.
 
Depending on which line arrays you listened to Mcintosh design choices were very different. The XR 20, 22 and 290 were designed by Roger Russel with Carl's computer knowledge for the XR 18. Then a new president came along and Roger retired . Then the next series used used metal dome tweeters and mids and were quite bright. Afer that designer left Carl van Elder who had stayed on came out with the XRT 28 and 30 designs but used silk tweeters and less ringing more likable 4 inch mids. But in order to get even energy out put over the entire music spectrum he accented the highs a bit gradually starting at 10 KHZ up to 16 kHZ. Then came the the current and updated line arrays from Italy. 1k, 2k, 1.1 k and 2.1k. Each with a more updated sound. So depending on what which one you heard your Cornwalls might sound a little muted. I would try first making sure your crossover caps are replaced. Then if necessary adding some of the current or recently used tweeters in place of your older tweeters.

It would be better if you could tells us which models of line arrays you heard and what the room acoustics were like. Then tell us about your listening environment. I think your electronics might need to be checked. I know when we sold your models they were very clean and clear sounding.

You do know to much clarity can be fatiguing over the long haul though very exciting with the first exposure.
 
twiiii said:
It would be better if you could tells us which models of line arrays you heard and what the room acoustics were like.
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They Mcintosh model was XRT1K. The room was a 30'w x 40'd ish record store showroom, drop down ceiling and tile floor, tons of record bins and wall decoration. I was able to stand 2 inches from them or 40 feet as I wandered around.

twiiii said:
Then tell us about your listening environment.
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16'w x 20'd ish, 9' ceiling. Carpeted, fabric recliners 14' from speakers. Speakers have factory risers, toe'd in 30 ish degrees. Imagine the Cornwalls in place of where the rack, sub and Heresy's are... and without the coffee table (really old pic)
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twiiii said:
You do know to much clarity can be fatiguing over the long haul though very exciting with the first exposure.
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Absolutely.
 
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twiiii said:
I think your electronics might need to be checked. I know when we sold your models they were very clean and clear sounding.
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As it happens I went through and checked all my settings to verify no grandkids had fussed around and found a dirty impedance selector switch on my CX-800 pre-amp was causing some of the muddiness. I decided to check after listening to the flac version post listening to the vinyl. I cycled the switch and that cleared up. However, the need for a re-cap of the Cornies is still very evident.
 
Good day all, back with the update.

I have re-capped the B-2's.
De-ox'd and secured all electrical connections.
Checked the seals and tightened down the drivers on the squakers.
Checked all the motor board mounting screws on the tweeters and squakers.
Checked the screws on the woofers, found several that were just spinning in the motor board. (all were in one speaker)
Repaired all bad screw holes in the motorboard for the woofer.
Rotated the woofers 90° and re-secured to the motor board. (all screws hold tight now)
Just for fun I replaced the rear terminals with some new binding posts.

To sum it up, one of the woofers may have been loose enough on the motor board to be causing some noise, the mid drivers may not have been sealing like they should (guess?)
and the caps were 42 years old.

Once everything was hooked back up I selected a high res flac version of Al Green's 1973 album "Call me" played at a resonable volume to verify operation.

Well folks, I think we got it. The Corwalls sound as awesome as they should. Thanks to everyone for your help.
 
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