30 Year Audiophile Re-Discovers Vintage

[ARRAY]

A fellow and I got onto the topic of gear and he'd mentioned he's been an audiophile for 30+ years and spent around $60k on equipment during such time.

The conversational path took an interesting turn when he'd mentioned why he was looking for older items. In short - sound quality! He was amazed when he recently heard an old Kenwood integrated paired up with one of his upper echelon loudspeakers. He absolutely loved it, having ears now re-kindled with a sound that had escaped him for so many years. Listening to someone talk about that re-aquaintance was yet another affirmation. So, that being said he is in the process of selling off most his high end equipment, buying vintage for 15th the cost of his other stuff and banking the difference. An interesting testimonial to the "old timers" sound - it apparently still has a lot going for it.

 

[Pyrrho]

I am a firm believer in using "mid-fi" electronics with high end speakers (if the speakers are not overly difficult; e.g., don't have impedance dips down to 1 ohm, etc.). In my opinion, it gives the best bang for the buck, as, for example, any tolerable amplifier will have a flatter and probably wider frequency response than the speaker hooked up to it, no matter how expensive the speaker is. And the distortion will be far, far less in the amplifier as well.

Still, if your acquaintance found that vintage electronics sounds better than the high end electronics he already had, then I can only conclude that he was suckered into buying expensive junk. Good high end electronics of today will not sound worse than old mid-fi electronics. But, of course, what makes things "high end" is often looks, apparent build quality, and, often, mostly hype. The old saying, "you get what you pay for" is BS, and everyone knows this. Otherwise, there would be no point in buying things on sale, for then it must be worse than it would have been at full price. Paying more does not necessarily get you more.

 

[Duffinator]

I am a firm believer in using "mid-fi" electronics with high end speakers (if the speakers are not overly difficult; e.g., don't have impedance dips down to 1 ohm, etc.). In my opinion, it gives the best bang for the buck, as, for example, any tolerable amplifier will have a flatter and probably wider frequency response than the speaker hooked up to it, no matter how expensive the speaker is. And the distortion will be far, far less in the amplifier as well.

The law of diminishing returns is alive and well in audio gear. The speakers make the most difference in any system and your point is well taken.

 

[Lefty]

The law of diminishing returns is alive and well in audio gear. The speakers make the most difference in any system and your point is well taken.

I agree 100%. The electronics of a audio system gets just too much praise and blame for the total sound of one's system. It's all about the speakers, placement and room acoustics :thmbsp: Their deviation from perfection far out masks any perceived imperfections of the electronics... Including the capacitors

The electronics has been blameless for decades.........

Lefty

 

[89-300ce]

The law of diminishing returns is alive and well in audio gear. The speakers make the most difference in any system and your point is well taken.

I propose that the source is the most important part of the chain. A good system can't save a bad mix. I can enjoy good material on a kitchen radio but I can't listen to bad material/mix on my system.

Jorg

 

[pioneernut]

I've said for years, "Speakers can make or break a system" IMHO speakers are a subjective thing, and I've always felt you should get what you feel sounds good to your ears. Ultimately you can spend thousands in electronics, and have some of the best source music, but if you got crappy speakers, like say some TOTL York/GPX speakers, its going to sound like a York system(maybe not for long if you crank it up on an SX-1250 )

- Mike

 

[motorstereo]

I'd have to respectfully disagree. I have a pair of cerwin vega speakers that are damn near unlistenable on a solid state amp. Now cv 3000's aren't what you'd call high end speakers if you ask me. I paired them up with a macintosh mx110 and a pair of tube monoblocks and this is one of the nicest sounding set-ups I've ever had and I've had one or two. I was always a firm believer in speakers being the high point of the system but after assembling this pairing I've rethought my position. Sometimes it isn't all about the speakers it's whatcha got drivin em. Course the other end of the spectrum is you can't polish a turd either. I highly doubt if anything could make a pair of studio standards sound good. You do have to have some degree of quality in the speakers.

 

[mjr4077au]

Many things I've found make a difference.


If a source is crap, its really only going to sound worse on a decent setup.

I have found the more powerful amps don't sound as good as smaller amps - this is especially true with Vintage Marantz. Anyone that needs 150+ wpc for a household application either is a show pony and just want's them for bragging rights or has some REALLY inefficient speakers.

As it has been said, speakers are VERY subjective. I don't really take recommendations on speakers anymore because of this.

I tend to think that speakers today are better then vintage speakers. I admittingly have not heard alot of vintage speakers so I won't say anything like this with 100% certainty.

 

[theophile]

If we were to all sit down on this thread and have real good chinwag there would be a lot of experiences brought to the table because we are touching,from various different angles,some big issues in audio.Therefore,please indulge me.
I'm gonna say something that might be obvious,I trust my ears,with a proviso.I know from experience that there is an internal level of expectation of what constitutes "good sound quality".This expectation changes with exposure to better quality components.In otherwords,the internal goalposts are shiftable,and someone who is an "imaging and soundstage" afficionado may find themselves(for example) gaining an appreciation of the virtues of dynamics and tonal verity.

We all listen differently.
Next statement of the bleedin' obvious.All components interact,to a greater or lesser degree.Include rooms and software as components here please.
Each stage of the chain(source,amplification,transducer)has a unique contribution,which renders each stage as equally important.Therefore a balance on the ability-side of the ledger,spread evenly across each step of the system-chain is where satifaction lies.
One individual remarked that placing a source component itno a more capable system-chain,merely left the source exposed a not being as capable as the following components.
Similarly state of the art source components with vastly inferior electronics and transducers isn't a wise way to configure a single system.It does make sense as a step in an upgrade strategy,but when looking to assemble a sytem for the long term,balance of sound-quality virtues is conducive to synergy.

 

[kichijai]

Sorry, amps are almost as important as speakers. I agree on the room but often nothing can be done about a substandard one short of moving. Oh how I miss my off-campus college apartment house which was brick with concrete slab flooring!

 

[outlawmws]

SNIP I agree on the room but often nothing can be done about a substandard one short of moving. SNIP

Beg to differ. While a few rooms may be beyond hope, paying attention to Placement, room treatment, and yes sometimes speakers and gear, most rooms can be made so there is at least ONE small sweet spot that sounds great. Carpets, drapes tapestries, bookcases, can add or detract, and several here have said simply removing unused speakers can improve things, (keeping the un-powered woofers from resonating and absorbing the bass I conjecture)

Is it easy? No, but some changes also reap large benefits. I would say close to 90% of the AK membership spends NO time on room treatments. Hmmm that would be a good poll… Consider it done!