4-Track and 4-channel RTR questions

[meggy]

I've been looking for a back-up RTR, specifically at a Teac 3340s (4 channel and 4 track). I basically understand tracks and channels, but I'm wondering:

1. I've seen other 2-track deck descriptions touting that they use the whole tape (and only record & play) in one direction, but that means better sound.

Is that generally true?


2. Seems to me that 4-channel RTR is pretty much useless if you're not running Quadraphonic or doing some mixing of input souces.

Does recording stereo on a 4 channel 4 track deck result in better sound reproduction (than a two track or four track/ two channel deck)?

 

[mhardy6647]

There is such a thing as half-track (single-sided) stereo, if that's what you're asking.

Bigger tracks should mean more information per second/better 'averaging' of any anomalies in the magnetic coating, which should imply better sound, all things being equal.

 

[meggy]

Thanks, but no, that's not exactly what I'm asking. Sorry, I'm probably not being very specific.

Let's see, one thing at a time...

First, will a 4 channel /4 track RTR (like a Teac 3440s) record my 2-channel stereo to all 4 of it's channels resulting in better sound (than a normal 2 channel-2 track deck would /all things being "equal")?

Second, do you generally get any better sound from a 2 track RTR (vs a 4 track) because of the fact that it "uses the whole tape", in effect in it's one-directional recording & playback?

 

[boxoboom]

meggy, Well yes you can record stereo to all four channels.. I doubt that it will sound any better. The Teac 3340s is a 4 track semi pro recording deck. Meaning it was really made with the musician in mind. That way you could record one or two tracks, play them back and record along with the other one or two. You could then "bounce the recorded tracks to another, thus Freeing up more tracks for other instruments.

If memory serves the Beatles recorded Sgt. Peppers on multiple 4 track machines, giving them the ability to have virtual 16 track studio which did not exist at the time.

You can also use this machine to do actual 4 track stereo, using some sort of decoder or delay for the rear channels.

What Mhardy said about a 1/2 track is absolutely correct ... I have a pioneer rt2012 which has removable head blocks . One has a 4 track in it the other has a stereo 1/2 track . My machine will run at either 7 1/2 or 15 ips. At 15 this deck will rival most CD players. Especially if I use my DBX 150 with it.

Hope this helps.

 

[mhardy6647]

half-track stereo at 15 ips oughta better most CDP's, and maybe SACDP's, too

'specially if it's on one of these:

 

[boxoboom]

WOW ! Nice mrh ... my RT 2044 ( made mistake in posting before) isn't too shabby either.. can't give you a pic ... I'm at work :tears:

 

[mhardy6647]

The Stellavox isn't mine ,but I did get to listen to that very machine in the photo with some professional masters and first generation copies. An awesome machine. It is indeed running 1/2 track heads and 15 ips in the photo.

My R2R's are much more prosaic. I've posted a photo of 'em here before.

 

[meggy]

Thanks everyone, that's exactly what I needed to know - recording to 4 tracks doesn't up the anti on sound reproduction.

Now I gotta go investigate 1/2 tracks! :yes:

 

[meggy]

1/2 ", that is.

 

[goldear]

Thanks, but no, that's not exactly what I'm asking. Sorry, I'm probably not being very specific.

Let's see, one thing at a time...

First, will a 4 channel /4 track RTR (like a Teac 3440s) record my 2-channel stereo to all 4 of it's channels resulting in better sound (than a normal 2 channel-2 track deck would /all things being "equal")?

Second, do you generally get any better sound from a 2 track RTR (vs a 4 track) because of the fact that it "uses the whole tape", in effect in it's one-directional recording & playback?

To question 1: The answer is a definite NO. If you try to record parallel channels, it is not the same as recrding half track. What you would get is that two of your four channles would play backwards on a normal 4-track stereo machine.

To question 2 the answer is that you get about a 3dB improvement in signal to noise ratio each time you double your track width, and also less sensitivity to drop-outs on your tapes. Other than this, there is not much difference in the sound between 1/4 track stereo, and 1/2 track stereo. But running at higher speeds improves pretty much all aspects of the sound, with the exception of your bass response.

 

[meggy]

Thanks goldear
on Q1. I didn't know that, but suspected!

on Q2. By the numbers, it doesn't seem like you'd notice that much difference.
For instance, my Pioneer RT909 has a >60dB S/N ratio, so we're talking a one half of one percent difference?

The faster speed/ better quality I've done, but it sure takes up a lot of tape. Plus you don't get the same hypnotic effect as watching the 3.75 a 70's boy like me requires.

 

[goldear]

Thanks goldear
on Q1. I didn't know that, but suspected!

on Q2. By the numbers, it doesn't seem like you'd notice that much difference.
For instance, my Pioneer RT909 has a >60dB S/N ratio, so we're talking a one half of one percent difference?

The faster speed/ better quality I've done, but it sure takes up a lot of tape. Plus you don't get the same hypnotic effect as watching the 3.75 a 70's boy like me requires.

I agree that unless you are mastering, that the 3dB improvement in noise is not going to be overly significant. And when noise reduction is added into the equation, this difference becomes completely moot.

I personally like to run faster speeds at quarter track. For example: An 2400 foot tape at 7.5 ips half-track is 2 hours on one side. But the same tape is 2 hours long at 15 ips, when recorded quarter track, on two sides.

The first option gets just marginally improved performance, but the second gets a really large improvement. The only problem is that not very many decks will record in this format, as it is quite non-standard.

 

[mhardy6647]

Does anyone know? Except for directionality, of course, is the track configuration (i.e., track widths and spacing on the tape) for 1/4" 4-track and 1/4" quarter-track stereo the same?

I know I can play quarter-track stereo just fine on my TASCAM 22-4 by monitoring only tracks 1 and 3. I can also listen to all the secret satanic messages, by monitoring 2 and 4, of course

The question is. If I record 1 and 3 in one direction, and 2 and 4 in the other, will it play like a quarter-track tape on a properly aligned quarter track machine?

If no one knows, I'm gonna just have to try it -- I've been meaning to, for a couple of years!
[

PS. More Stella porn

yup, Stella runs on batteries.

 

[wcarroll]

Does anyone know? Except for directionality, of course, is the track configuration (i.e., track widths and spacing on the tape) for 1/4" 4-track and 1/4" quarter-track stereo the same?

Yes, they are the same. BTW, I really like my A-3340S. :thmbsp: