$50 for ESS model 8?

[Gingahippy]

So I found these locally to me, wondering if they look like something I should grab and work on or run away from. Rough work has been done but the guy seems honest about it.

https://asheville.craigslist.org/ele/6198491651.html


from an email:
"the previous owner used a piece cardboard for the center of the passive radiator on the back..it functions fine. I did have to flip it around because it was on backwards. Complete passive kits can be found on ebay for $35ish. I have been watching for a grill ...but no luck as these are rare . They sound great and will be happy to demo the for you. The tweeters are worth more then my asking price."

I've also got an offer of Advent 5002 refurbished by a local amp engineer for $250 which would be ready to go and no worry about condition. This guy is currently fixing my KA-3500 and I trust him to know his stuff.

or there are these: BW DM620 for $250 https://asheville.craigslist.org/ele/6211092473.html

 

[Porkloin]

From the photos, the cabinets look a little rough, but servicable and the grain is beautiful.
You can get the radiators from ESS for $20 each, but that limits what you can do with the drivers up front - the science of passive radiators is a bit mysterious and you can't just shove any ol' driver in a cabinet with them. If you have stock woofers, you may want to channel your inner "right-handed monkey" and refoam them yourself.
Go listen to them. If the woofers don't rattle and buzz and you feel comfortable with patching the walnut (AK member GD70 has a lot of information here about doing that), whip out the 50 bucks and take them home. There is nothing like an air motion transformer.
Unlike the larger AMT models with the larger woofers, the 8" woofer in the Model 8 should have an easier timing meeting up in the middle with the tweeter and not have the infamous midrange gap associated with the larger models. On the downside(s), it may leave you craving a subwoofer and you won't have the dipole effect of the larger "monitor" series.

 

[Porkloin]

The missing grill and badge would be easy enough to duplicate. I spent $10.95 plus shipping having an online badge maker print my graphics on a brushed metal name badge and I cut them accordingly. I've also had larger ones for my ESS' done.

 

[nyhifihead]

those passive radiators don't look like they were sealed properly- effectively changing the internal movement of air and bringing the frequency response far from stock- I would stay away

as for the DM620s they are great speakers! def overlooked compared to most B&Ws but they have very clean lows and high resolution midrange & highs. Don't be afraid of the metal dome it's quite tame on these specific B&Ws. They are 4 ohm but 90db sens so not too difficult to drive I think I ran them with a hafler DH220 mostly.

confirm all the drivers are good in the DM620s and you'll have a stellar performer. True full range, disappear easily and have a great soundstage. They will give a much fuller & true sound than those ESS would even in working condition IMO

I sold my DM620s for $170 and mine didn't have a pushed in tweeter, I think you have some negotiating room.

my pair when my basement was unfinished-

 

[Gingahippy]

Nice info guys. NYhi, what are those tiles your equipment is standing on?

How much does the pushed in tweeter affect performance? Will it need replacing?

 

[nyhifihead]

Nice info guys. NYhi, what are those tiles your equipment is standing on?

How much does the pushed in tweeter affect performance? Will it need replacing?

The tiles are just wood shelving, I used them to stabilize the speakers and bring them closer to ear height. And the gear so there's room to breathe for the bottom vents.

This was a temporary setup I had before I made a dedicated room.

The pairs of speakers I've had with pushed in domes have had no sonic impact and it seems that's the consensus.

I only sold the dm620s because I bought martin logan ESLs which I quickly sold then after. I was buying selling constantly.

I would love to see how they would perform since my massive amplification, front end, and room treatment overhaul!

 

[Gingahippy]

Price on the BW DM620s just came down to $175. But isn't 4ohm going to be an issue on my standard 8-16ohm rated amp? I have Kenwood KA3500 coming soon, that's rated at 8ohm, and a KA9100 in need of repair.

 

[Leben]

I have a pair of ESS LS8 speakers and they are one of my favorite sets. Those are definitely worth buying and fixing up!

 

[swechsler]

It looks like woodgrain vinyl veneer on the ESS cabs, so that may limit what refinishing that you can do without actually completely replacing it. I'm not too concerned about the other stuff - the passive radiators were cardboard to begin with so you might be able to just glue them down properly and adjust the mass if necessary and they should perform fairly well. As far as I'm concerned, anything with working AMTs (even the monopole version) is well worth $50.

 

[Boto]

I have a pair of the PS-8's that I refurbished. That is a great price. As for the passive radiators, they definitely look like they were put in backwards. The replacement ones that I bought had a piece of cardboard glued to the back of the radiator disk. Mine had problems with the vinyl peeling off. I put laminate that looked like teak on to replace it. They look and sound great!

http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/ess-refurbishment.411841/#post-8839509

 

[nyhifihead]

so apparently I had the B&W DM630s which have 2x active 8" opposed to the 1x active 8" and passive radiator in the DM620s

this makes a large difference in the low end and the tuning of the enclosure, so my comments regarding the bass are probably not accurate to the DM620s

I would also not be inclined to not pay top dollar with the 2way + PR, my vote goes to the ESS now

 

[nolasally]

I see your in North Carolina Hum??? You should become a subscriber and look into barter town.

 

[gdmoore28]

The missing grill and badge would be easy enough to duplicate. I spent $10.95 plus shipping having an online badge maker print my graphics on a brushed metal name badge and I cut them accordingly. I've also had larger ones for my ESS' done.

View attachment 966100 View attachment 966103

Those look great. Can you provide a link to the vendor you used? I need to have some custom plates made for my current build. This vendor's work is what I'm looking for.

GeeDeeEmm

 

[Gingahippy]

They are mine. They sounds fantastic. Playing Gregorian Chant is like being in a church. The jump in clarity from the old Hitachi 70's speakers is way bigger than I expected.


The Kenwood amp is not ready yet, once that gets coupled with the M8s things will get loud in my house. Thanks for the advice guys.

The wood is actually vinyl covering, I'm not too fussed about the looks right now, but I may make a matching set of screens at some point, right now they only have one ad the owner was waiting for 6 months to find one on ebay.

 

[Porkloin]

They are mine. They sounds fantastic. Playing Gregorian Chant is like being in a church. The jump in clarity from the old Hitachi 70's speakers is way bigger than I expected.

Gregorian chant is the ultimate demo for the advantages of an air motion transformer. One would instinctively think that a half sphere covered in goop (like those pictured in my avatar) would be the ultimate in natural sound, but they're mechanical in comparison to the organic sound coming from that pleated piece of mylar between a couple of magnets. Go figure.
That's not to say that what ESS put beneath their AMT's couldn't benefit from a bit of modernizing, but Oscar Heil's brainchild is still a force to be reckoned with to this day.
NOTE: How long does the cat remain sleeping in that bed when you crank it up?

 

[Gingahippy]

The cats have taken to sleeping on top of the amp where it's warmer instead. That'll have to stop soon though. They don't seem too bothered by anything from the speakers unless it's thunder or cats meowing.

I think for now I've reached a significant plateau in my audio collection. With the KA-3500 (being relaired) KA-9100 (needs repairs) and the Model 8s I'll have all I need for the home.

I bought a used Klipsch surround system for the massage room at my office yesterday. Tested it out last night and it's impressive, but way too much for a massage room. Need to rethink that option now.

 

[Porkloin]

Those filthy beasts will wreck your gear. Time to get a cabinet with a door. I purposefully traumatized both of the worthless mooches in my house when they so much as looked at the new $35 a yard cloth on the Rock Monitors. I'd cut them some slack if they'd deal with the mole problem on the new lawn, but they're good for nothing but eating and sleeping.

NOTE the glow emanating from the eyes, indicating telepathic communication with their controller, Mephistopheles himself (grill off of the HT speaker for photographic purposes. Lord knows that I don't want to be identified as one who thinks permanent grill removal is aesthetically acceptable.).

 

[Gingahippy]

Is the cat battery powered? Can you plug it in to the amp and make the eyes flash in time with the music?

So I plugged in both sets of speakers, A & B, and tried them individually, new ones clearly better, but when I play A+B it sounds so much deeper and richer as if there is a lot missing in the M8s from not having a mid driver. Is there a known way to sort that out? I'd really like to have only one pair in the bedroom.

I'm sure someone has replaced the woofer with something more suitable before me. It's 202mm.

 

[swechsler]

I wouldn't - it's notoriously difficult to do better than what the original engineer intended. Remember that this was designed as a system, it's not just drivers stuck into a random-sized box.

I notice you have a subwoofer in your setup. Are you using that with the M8s? I'm guessing that your old speakers have much better bass. An 8" woofer paired with an AMT tweeter shouldn't really need a midrange, since the AMT has a very wide range (ESS have paired as large as a 12" with an AMT, without a mid - I used to have a pair of AMT 1Cs and never noticed a lack of midrange - of course that was the dipolar version, but it shouldn't really make much of a difference).

I'd first experiment with placement if you have that option, then maybe some careful equalization with a parametric or 1/3 octave graphic EQ (a spectrum analyzer app on your smartphone will be extremely helpful as well). I wouldn't bother with anything like a 5 band equalizer, that's just a fancy tone control.