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5532 swapping

Rodzilla

Rodzilla

Super Member
...hmmm well this is interesting.

i had been wanting to upgrade the op amps in my ancient Yamaha DA2X dac...this dac was a pro studio piece circa early 90's,so while it is older digital,it's also fully balanced input to output[two dacs in one box really] it has a very high quality build,it's chock full of name brand audiophile grade caps etc.Yamaha pulled out most of the stops on this,but then used a slew of cheap as dirt 5532 op amps for the outputs...now being balanced only when i say "a slew" there were actually eight JRC 5532's in this output stage,and that doesn't include the four JRC 2114's before them[i assume these are the analog filters]

now the interesting thing is that in reading around the net,a lot of pro audio types actually seem to like the 5532,apparently the consensus is that in studio work it doesn't muddy up the sound as much as many others when there are multiple layers of them all operating one on top of the other...so i guess while it's not perfect,it is thought to be fairly neutral...

so anyway on to the curious part,i wanted to do this right..so i got a good deal on some sockets and chips from an ebay seller,so that i could cover the 8 5532 positions with sockets and also have a supply of new 5532's to start with as a baseline before trying other "upgrades",i had suspected the originals wouldn't all survive removal to be reused...which of course they didn't :)

so the only post surgery differences amount too..the new sockets and the new chips,which were texas instruments branded 5532's vs the old JRC branded originals...now i had also read that being a basic commodity type part not all 5532's were created equal,they all interchange and meet spec,but there are differences between makers...most pointed to the Ti parts as top of the heap....

and now the whole point of this long story...they truly are better,it's actually a bit shocking.the improvement is not day and night,but it's clearly better...more details and cleaner overall,better depth etc etc...they're slightly better all around,and it should be said...the Ti 5532's I'm using are NOT the low noise "audio" NE5532AP versions but the bog standard NE5532P...but they still clearly blow away the low noise graded JRC's

moral of the story...if you're looking to swap out one of these common as dirt 5532's and it also happens to be a common as dirt JRC one...the Ti version will swap right in with NO other changes needed to the circuit and they sound better...not so much different,but clearly cleaner and better...they cost all of about a buck each at full retail..and believe me,you've never gotten better audio value for a dollar...

now i need to order me some "a" versions,and figure out what to replace the JRC 2114's with :)
 
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5532s are one of the great bargains in the audio industry. They're even good as power amps -- just parallel about 32 of 'em to drive an 8-ohm load directly. There was an article in Elektor magazine on this topic.
 
anyone have any thoughts on replacement of the JRC2114's?

I'm assuming being essentially a hopped up JRC5532 it's likely that they share the JRC5532's shortcomings as well,if so i might do well to get them out...

I'm thinking the OPA2134?...only slightly better specs,but should drop right in...any thoughts?anyone had any experience,good or bad,with the 2134?any better choices i should be looking at without straying into potential trouble areas?
 
BadassBob said:
Why not solder in an opamp socket and roll to your hearts desire? :D
Click to expand...

i have already installed sockets for the 5532's...and will with the 2114's as well.I'm just trying to avoid wasting money buying op amps that won't work or won't work well...

the OPA2134 is a "reasonable" option at about 3 bucks a shot,i need four of them...with shipping that's about 20 bucks...but other options,and there are many,can run significantly more than that...as i said in the first post,there are 8 5532's following those,luckily i'm pretty happy with the improvement the TI's made there,as anything else starts getting pricey enough that i wouldn't want to be ordering replacements on a whim "just to try em out" :)
 
Rodzilla said:
i have already installed sockets for the 5532's...and will with the 2114's as well.I'm just trying to avoid wasting money buying op amps that won't work or won't work well...

the OPA2134 is a "reasonable" option at about 3 bucks a shot,i need four of them...with shipping that's about 20 bucks...but other options,and there are many,can run significantly more than that...as i said in the first post,there are 8 5532's following those,luckily i'm pretty happy with the improvement the TI's made there,as anything else starts getting pricey enough that i wouldn't want to be ordering replacements on a whim "just to try em out" :)
Click to expand...

and....? This is the end of the story?
Did you replaced the JRC214's, with what and how it is sounding?
Thanks.
 
Weren't 5532's pretty much still on the "cutting edge" of op amp performance in the early 90's? We had an audio console at TBS that was full of them, and it had incredible performance and specs, and an incredibly low noise floor.

I used them in all my pro custom audio devices I built at TBS. In fact, all the air audio on TBS used to go through stereo/mono mode boxes I built with 5532's for years.

I would even "piggyback" 2 chips on each other to drive headphones.

Dave
 
The 5532 is one of the best opamps ever made. Very stable and neutral sounding device. I like it.

I had the 4558 in my KA-405 to go. Put a sock and first tried the 2604 but I didn't like it. Too soft, had to use tone controls a lot!

Then swapped with the 5532 and... boom! Very nice! :music:

p5100582.jpg


p5140634ka405f.jpg


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Just switching these around without doing any measurements is bad practice..
They can start to oscillate, or you could en up using the wrong opamp for the wrong job, and the distortion could make you *think* it sounds better.

One thing is the Bipolar vs FET opamps: as an example, you could take the 5532 vs. the OPA2134.

One could say, just swap these around. Actually: -No-.
1) You've got to check the voltage rails first. Are they rated for the voltage that is published in the datasheet (as an example, the max. voltage might be e.g. 18V; but the specs are given at 15 (and as such, are probably the best at that voltage..))
2) Source impedance: A FET is best combined with a high impedance source (think MM cart; Mic; ...) A Bipolar is best for low impedance sources (line; MC cart; ...). The reason for this is the voltage noise. Which is low in a bipolar coupled with a low impedance source. This is what makes people think that eg an LM4562 is super-duper low-noise and use it for MM-carts. Wrong. You'll actually see a FET have lower noise in MM-carts due to that. This is the same reason why you should use FET's in classic volume controls (no scratching pots due to the absence of that voltage noise.. :) )
3) Decoupling. Every opamp will oscillate when not adequately decoupled. Some require rail-to-rail; others rail-to-ground. Just slapping on a 100nF cap isn't going to cut it. Sockets make this harder as well. Your decoupling gets further away from the actual device. And you add some resistance, some capacitance from the socket itself,...

So don't just start rolling opamps for no reason, or without the needed tools, you can actually add noise or distortion, instead of getting to your goal of lowering it. :tears:
 
Wirehead said:
Just switching these around without doing any measurements is bad practice..
They can start to oscillate, or you could en up using the wrong opamp for the wrong job, and the distortion could make you *think* it sounds better.

So don't just start rolling opamps for no reason, or without the needed tools, you can actually add noise or distortion, instead of getting to your goal of lowering it. :tears:
Click to expand...
So true :no: And then it could be worse than with a 5532, which is at least unity gain stable. Try a 5534 as a voltage follower and you're in for a surprise :D

@ Dave, yes the 5534 and 5532 were standard in all the pro / broadcast stuff back in the '90s. You could find them is most everything Studer, Sony Pro, and practically all the others. Only problem was, they were not all made the same. Some were practically class-A, others were practically class-B, so you had to make sure it was a "good" make, and not use tricks like tying the output to a power rail through a resistor to increase the output bias: on some it worked well but on others it was dangerous to the chip if memory serves. Needless to say, pro equipment used the good ones. Around the early '90s some chip manufacturers like PMI started making op amps claiming to be better sonically than the 5532/5534, (remember the SSM2131?) but it took a long time before they managed to make one that lived up to these claims.
 
Too bad the Douglas Self op amp site isn't up anymore. He compared a bunch of them, including some of the new "high performance" ones, and concluded...the NE5532 is still his choice for audio.
 
Wirehead said:
...

3) Decoupling. Every opamp will oscillate when not adequately decoupled. Some require rail-to-rail; others rail-to-ground. Just slapping on a 100nF cap isn't going to cut it. Sockets make this harder as well. Your decoupling gets further away from the actual device. And you add some resistance, some capacitance from the socket itself,...
Click to expand...

A 10uF mini cap (35V) seried to a 3.9 ohm res. (1W) were put across pins 4- and 8+
 
jlb2 said:
@ Dave, yes the 5534 and 5532 were standard in all the pro / broadcast stuff back in the '90s. You could find them is most everything Studer, Sony Pro, and practically all the others. Only problem was, they were not all made the same. Some were practically class-A, others were practically class-B, so you had to make sure it was a "good" make, and not use tricks like tying the output to a power rail through a resistor to increase the output bias: on some it worked well but on others it was dangerous to the chip if memory serves. Needless to say, pro equipment used the good ones. Around the early '90s some chip manufacturers like PMI started making op amps claiming to be better sonically than the 5532/5534, (remember the SSM2131?) but it took a long time before they managed to make one that lived up to these claims.
Click to expand...

I remember there was one brand of 5532 that ran incredibly hot to the touch. I think it was an early TI version, if I remember correctly. I had a lot of "infant mortality" with those and started ordering some other version because of it.

That console we had was an AMS Calrec. It was the first console they sold in America. Cost us $334,000. I remember being impressed with the design of the console, and when I mentioned this to the engineer from AMS Calrec that was in Atlanta for installation, he said thanks, as he had designed it. His name was on the schematics. The console had Valley People modules in the front end of the microphone preamps, and they were incredibly quiet preamps for studio work.

That console was used in TBS Control "C" for production and all the live TBS Sports halftime studio shows we did for football and basketball, and other live TBS shows up until about 1999, when they moved to the new Production building and had all new consoles. When the console was retired, I "inherited" all the books, VU meters, and limiter modules from the console. They had to physically take the console apart to remove it from the building, since when we installed it we had built the walls of the room around it after we got it in position in the control room.

Those were the days. :sigh:

Dave
 
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