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78 Phono Preamps ?

Hello Guiller
Just stumbled across your post and thought I'd relate my own experiences of playing old 78s. I started years ago with a QUAD 44 and that was quite a flexible unit, very similar to the earlier 33 and 22 pre-amps, a very useable and well built pre. I was happy for a few years with this set up, until I really got the bug for 78s and decided to take the plunge and imported a Harman Kardon Citation I, bought on e-XXX... when it arrived it was cosmetically in good condition but not in working condition and needed a full service (contrary to the description). Anyway, I eventually went for a re-build and am very pleased with the result, truly a wonderful unit. I now use the Citation purely as a phono stage (it has 2 phono inputs, one I use for stereo and the other for mono records) with a fancy modern Conrad Johnson as my main pre. Best of all it now seems to have gone up in value, which is makes me feel good even when I know I probably will never part with it.

All this to say that these vintage pre-amps really are a worthwhile options. Other more modern units that have not got a mention in this thread are the units from TDL - their units look well made and seem to offer good value for money, see http://www.tdl-tech.com/

Good Luck
Inamelotone
 
This product looks very interesting!

http://www.tdl-tech.com/data415.htm

mod415-1.jpg
 
guiller said:
Hi Bob,

Thanks for the input. The reason I never considered the scheme you are mentioning is that my equalizer is designed for having inputs and outputs with impedances and signal levels typical of the high-level class (aux/tuner/cd/tape). Connecting directly the output of the MM cart would provide signals with different impedance and a signal level 1 or 2 orders of magnitude smaller. I never thought in detail if this mismatch between signals could produce any good results, dismissing the procedure without carrying on any experimentals tests. Did you actually tried this scheme? I would be much interested in knowing if my theoretical objections are irrelevant in practice! This would be the most practical solution, at least for the time being.
Click to expand...

I was wondering if anybody ever tried this scheme, that is:

78 rpm phono cart (MM) --> Equalizer (with the appropriate settings quoted in the literature)--> phono preamp ?

I guess the substantially smaller amplitude of the signals would produce a bad result since I expect a lot of noise arising from the equalizer , but on the other hand, I could perhaps do an experimental test since I've got a Nikko EQ-1 sitting idle there.
 
As a complete newbie, I hope you will excuse the direct question (that might have ignored the more technical discussion in the thread):

would a BELLARI - VP530 be a good pre-amp for 78 playback and digital transfer?
 
mufinas said:
As a complete newbie, I hope you will excuse the direct question (that might have ignored the more technical discussion in the thread):

would a BELLARI - VP530 be a good pre-amp for 78 playback and digital transfer?
Click to expand...

No. It's a standard RIAA phono preamp. Well over 95% of the 78s you're likely to encounter will utilize curves differing from RIAA. Ideally, you'd be using a variable EQ phono preamp and adjusting curves to suit each record you play.
 
Thanks cactuscowboy!

Follow-up: if I sent the phono source through a Pioneer SG-9500 equalizer to the Bellari pre-amp, would that do the trick?

If not, would this be a decent pre-amp to use instead?
http://www.phonopreamps.com/tc778pp.html


cactuscowboy said:
No. It's a standard RIAA phono preamp. Well over 95% of the 78s you're likely to encounter will utilize curves differing from RIAA. Ideally, you'd be using a variable EQ phono preamp and adjusting curves to suit each record you play.
Click to expand...
 
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guiller said:
Thanks for all the data. Due to a typo, the meaning of what I wanted to say was reversed! Sorry about this! I´m not interested into archiving in digital files, but in on-the-fly reproduction.
Click to expand...

I hate to say it,but I would say do what I do and use nothing but integrated tube amps for both 78s,and for all around use.Preferably either an amp like the Scott and Fisher in my sig,or a modern single ended triode amp,connected to any good tube preamp with a phono stage.I have a decent size 78 collection myself,1000's of titles,about 80% classical,6he rest a mix of R&B,rock,and country.The latter going back into the 1920s.

By the way,my X-101,that dates from 1959,has a separate setting for 78s.
 
Given the discussion on the recent thread http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=8530951 , I thought that, for the sake of completeness of this thread, state here how I am playing 78 rpm records as of today. I use a standard RIAA equalized phono preamp (Clearaudio Nano) and a graphic equalizer (Nikko EQ-1) connected through the tape loop in my bedroom system (Nikko Beta 2 preamp + Alpha 2 power amp). I use the equalizer to get the correct equalization parameters of the different 78 rpm records I play, using the table listed in Appendix B of http://users.hal-pc.org/~clement/Restoring Old Recordings.htm#Appendix_B .

As an example, consider the Victor 47-52 column: you'll see that the deviations form the RIAA curve involve corrections that are smaller than 1 dB in the bass spectrum and not larger than 1.73 dB in the higher portion of it.

On the other hand, in the Decca 78 column you'll notice that larger corrections are needed (as large as 8 dB).

PS: the big step forward has been the addition and restoration of a Lenco L75 (original arm) which is a superb TT for this job!

PS2: notice that this setup is also good for playing early LPs (and 45 rpm, as the red vinyl series of RCA) as the necessary corrections are easily applied using the same reference.
 
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Scuzzer said:
My setup is for good playback (not archiving) of 78s and I primarily use 4 EQ settings, US/Euro/Columbia/Acoustic depending on the particular disc. One thing that really helps playback quality is a variable scratch filter. My Quad preamp has 4 settings (5k,7k,10k, off) and a variable filter slope so that I can dial in maximum noise reduction without losing too much music. Mostly I use 5k for acoustic, 7k for 30s recordings and 10k for 40s but with exceptionally worn out records I might opt for a more aggressive noise reduction setting.

A Quad would probably be too much of a DIY choice for you right now but I thought I'd mention the usefulness of the variable scratch filter.

Quadpreamp003.jpg


edit: Prompted by your post I fired up the 78 rig this morning to listen to a box of records I got last month. Currently enjoying Lionel Hampton's "Hey Ba Ba Re Bop"

Here's what it sounds like incorrectly EQ'ed with no scratch filter. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIL7-C9PCZs Why would people listen to them that way?
Click to expand...

That Quad was what Paul McCartney plugged his bass into back in the early Cavern days! (Look next to Lennon's Vox AC15 amp.)

stageclose8_zpsd643bc89.jpg
 
guiller said:
Given the discussion on the recent thread http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=8530951 , I thought that, for the sake of completeness of this thread, state here how I am playing 78 rpm records as of today. I use a standard RIAA equalized phono preamp (Clearaudio Nano) and a graphic equalizer (Nikko EQ-1) connected through the tape loop in my bedroom system (Nikko Beta 2 preamp + Alpha 2 power amp). I use the equalizer to get the correct equalization parameters of the different 78 rpm records I play, using the table listed in Appendix B of http://users.hal-pc.org/~clement/Restoring Old Recordings.htm#Appendix_B .

As an example, consider the Victor 47-52 column: you'll see that the deviations form the RIAA curve involve corrections that are smaller than 1 dB in the bass spectrum and not larger than 1.73 dB in the higher portion of it.

On the other hand, in the Decca 78 column you'll notice that larger corrections are needed (as large as 8 dB).

PS: the big step forward has been the addition and restoration of a Lenco L75 (original arm) which is a superb TT for this job!

PS2: notice that this setup is also good for playing early LPs (and 45 rpm, as the red vinyl series of RCA) as the necessary corrections are easily applied using the same reference.
Click to expand...

Dead link still available here: https://web.archive.org/web/2012122...-pc.org/~clement/Restoring Old Recordings.htm
 
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