80s or 90s Amp recommendations?

[G7065]

Looking for recommendations for a replacement amp for my father’s separates system.

It’s a late 80s Denon system all working very nicely, with an Arcam Alpha 2 amp that was specced with it from new. The amp sounds nice but it lacks a bit of ‘oomph’ - recapping it helped a bit but it’s still a bit lightweight, better suited to listening to classical, not so much for heavy rock.

Looking for recommendations for a similar era (late 80s / early 90s stereo amp) that would fit nicely in the stack but deliver bigger sound… Pioneer A400, for example.

Don’t mind the make, ideally at least 50w RMS, but it needs to be the black design typical of the era.

Any suggestions? Thanks!

 

[ET16]

How much do you want to spend?

 

[atlvalet]

Yeah. Budget? If you're looking for something that fits on a rack, you could look at a Hafler DH500. There are updated ones for sale all the time.

Also, I have a few Aragon amps I like a lot. There are also some updated Adcom GFA-555's which are a Nelson pass design, IIRC.

 

[sqlsavior]

Hafler DH-220, or any of its successors that are also MOSFET.

 

[rickb119]

The Arcam Alpha 2 is an integrated amp, as is the Pioneer A400 the OP mentioned. Therefore, I assume he (another assumption ) is looking for an integrated amp.

Something like the Denon PMA series would work, and not be too expensive. I have a Denon PMA 920 that does a great job with rock music. Not quite as good with jazz and classical as it lacks the detail I desire. All in all, not a bad amp though. And can be found fairly cheap.

 

[bluesky]

1987 Sansui AU-X901 (130w) or AU-X701 (100w).

'Source Direct', MM/MC, & Loudness.

Sounds simply OUTSTANDING.

Good luck finding one, especially the AU-X901. But if you find the X901 or X701 in nice shape - JUMP ON IT!!

 

[spark1]

What makes you think it's the amp that's causing the "problem"? What speakers are you using with it?

If you need more power, my suggestion is to go to 100-120watts, at minimum. Your amp - a very nice one, by the way - is rated at 30 watts. Jumping to 60 watts only adds another 3dB of loudness (or headroom). It would take about 300 watts to get a 10db increase. 10dB = a doubling of loudness (roughly).

Are you wanting to stick with an integrated amp, or going with a separate power amp (in which case you will need some sort of preamp)? Budget is important for getting good recommendations.

 

[G7065]

Thanks for all the suggestions, really useful - I should have been clearer and said integrated amp, as a direct replacement for the Arcam.

Budget-wise, no strict amount but probably looking at a good mid-high end integrated amp from that era. I have a pretty decent understanding of solid date / 70s stuff but not much knowledge of what was particularly good in the late 80s/90s.

I am also in the UK, which may impact availability in the second-hand market. Totally appreciate age and condition will also play their part, as much as the model itself.

Currently running a set of B&W DM4 and have tried a set of Monitor Audio Bronze 2s which were all fine but a bit lacking (especially compared to hearing them with my STR-7065, but that’s a different story)... new speakers are next on the list, probably a set of floorstanders.

50w… probably should have said 80w minimum

 

[spark1]

If you are planning to buy new speakers anyway, perhaps you might consider keeping the Arcam and going with speakers that better match it (higher sensitivity).

If that's not your cup of tea, I would still recommend buying speakers first and then getting an amp appropriate to them.

What is it that you find lacking about the Arcam? Is it a loudness issue, or something else?

Musical Fidelity made some very nice, high-power integrated amps in the 90s. And the Yamaha A1000 was a very good and dynamic-sounding amp from the 80s, with a top-notch phono section...but I would limit it to 6-8ohm speakers.

 

[rickb119]

Am I to assume that the reason you're looking for an integrated (as opposed to a separate amp and pre) is that it needs to fit in the allotted rack space?

 

[kwkshift]

I ran a Denon POA-1500 (silver) for a few years and I loved it. The warm glow of those meters along with the clean performance was a definite winner for me. I only sold it once I upgraded to a Mac piece.

 

[coonmanx]

Depends what is available to you. I do always see quality 80s Technics units coming up for sale on Ebay in the UK. Something like a Technics SU-V707 @ 90 WPC.

 

[OMGCat!]

If you are planning to buy new speakers anyway, perhaps you might consider keeping the Arcam and going with speakers that better match it (higher sensitivity).

If that's not your cup of tea, I would still recommend buying speakers first and then getting an amp appropriate to them.

What is it that you find lacking about the Arcam? Is it a loudness issue, or something else?

Musical Fidelity made some very nice, high-power integrated amps in the 90s. And the Yamaha A1000 was a very good and dynamic-sounding amp from the 80s, with a top-notch phono section...but I would limit it to 6-8ohm speakers.

I second the A-1000 recommendation. Great amp that is very dynamic.
I’m running mine with speakers that dip down to the high 3 ohm levels at some frequencies and have seen contemporary magazine reviews run full power tests at 2 ohm so I wouldn’t worry much about impedance.
As with most old gear, it will likely need some attention. Most notable the corrosive glue used to hold down some caps.

 

[spark1]

I second the A-1000 recommendation. Great amp that is very dynamic.
I’m running mine with speakers that dip down to the high 3 ohm levels at some frequencies and have seen contemporary magazine reviews run full power tests at 2 ohm so I wouldn’t worry much about impedance.
As with most old gear, it will likely need some attention. Most notable the corrosive glue used to hold down some caps.

I would be interested in those tests, if you can refer me to them. Hard to imagine this amp being able to handle that kind of current with only two outputs per side and fairly limited heatsinking. But I I agree that it sounds pretty darned good....I have one in one of my workshop systems.

 

[OMGCat!]

I would be interested in those tests, if you can refer me to them. Hard to imagine this amp being able to handle that kind of current with only two outputs per side and fairly limited heatsinking. But I I agree that it sounds pretty darned good....I have one in one of my workshop systems.

I’ll dig it up when I get home. I don’t remember the results exactly but it was a bit higher than the 4 ohm test so there’s some current limiting going on. Better than releasing smoke IMO.
I’m running mine with B&W Matrix 804s with the factory “bass alignment filter” basically an inline eq. It sounds really great. Beat out a few much more expensive amps in A/B testing.

 

[Bodyblue]

Any of the Sony ES amps. I have a Sony TA330ES at 110wpc and it is fast and punchy and clear as can be. It is a true class A and B amp that switches between the two instantly. That is what "Spontaneous Twin Drive" means. Build quality is actually stunning. The ES amps were what Sony showed the world it could build.

 

[Rdenney]

For me, late 80's and 90's amps means either Adcom or B&K. A B&K ST-140 would provide 70 wpc with lots of headroom, and the ST-200 provided more like twice that. Those became the Reference 125.2 (125 wpc) and 200.2 (200 wpc), after later designs got more power out of the basic design.

The Adcom GFA-535 is nominally 60 wpc, but it also has mountains of headroom and most think it sounds more like 100 wpc. And Adcom amps just get bigger from there--the classic of that era is the GFA-555 at more like 200 wpc. The usual caution with these Adcoms is that the inputs are DC-coupled, and therefore don't go through a protection capacitor. A failure could dump a ruinous amount of DC into the speakers.

I have a couple of B&K Reference 125.2's and an Adcom GFA-535--all great amps. If you want more punch with heavy rock music, you should go bigger to the B&K ST-200 or 200.2 or the Adcom GFA-555.

Rick "for whom this period is his theme" Denney

 

[spark1]

For me, late 80's and 90's amps means either Adcom or B&K. A B&K ST-140 would provide 70 wpc with lots of headroom, and the ST-200 provided more like twice that. Those became the Reference 125.2 (125 wpc) and 200.2 (200 wpc), after later designs got more power out of the basic design.

The Adcom GFA-535 is nominally 60 wpc, but it also has mountains of headroom and most think it sounds more like 100 wpc. And Adcom amps just get bigger from there--the classic of that era is the GFA-555 at more like 200 wpc. The usual caution with these Adcoms is that the inputs are DC-coupled, and therefore don't go through a protection capacitor. A failure could dump a ruinous amount of DC into the speakers.

I have a couple of B&K Reference 125.2's and an Adcom GFA-535--all great amps. If you want more punch with heavy rock music, you should go bigger to the B&K ST-200 or 200.2 or the Adcom GFA-555.

Rick "for whom this period is his theme" Denney

To me, the Adcom sounds more like 81, maybe 82 watts.

Re the B&K amps; did they provide a definition for "headroom"? Wattage beyond rated, at what incremental distortion level, for how long?

I assume you are referring to "dynamic headroom"...for which I don't believe there is standardized definition?

I could certainly be wrong, but it would seem like the better the amp, the lower its dynamic headroom.

In any case, I always try to use an amp with enough rated power to provide at least 12-15dB of "real" headroom above the loudest average level at which I plan to ever listen. So, if I need 5 watts to get to my desired loudness with my speakers at my normal listening distance, I would want an amp rated at between 80 and 160 watts.

But I digress. In any case, I believe the OP is seeking recommendations for an integrated amp.

 

[Rdenney]

To me, the Adcom sounds more like 81, maybe 82 watts.

Re the B&K amps; did they provide a definition for "headroom"? Wattage beyond rated, at what incremental distortion level, for how long?

I assume you are referring to "dynamic headroom"...for which I don't believe there is standardized definition?

I could certainly be wrong, but it would seem like the better the amp, the lower its dynamic headroom.

In any case, I always try to use an amp with enough rated power to provide at least 12-15dB of "real" headroom above the loudest average level at which I plan to ever listen. So, if I need 5 watts to get to my desired loudness with my speakers at my normal listening distance, I would want an amp rated at between 80 and 160 watts.

But I digress. In any case, I believe the OP is seeking recommendations for an integrated amp.

Okay--I was confused by the "Denon system" that used an "Arcam...amp"

We know this: whatever the Arcam delivered was not enough to satisfy the OP, so doubling that would be the minimum I would recommend.

And you are right that there is no standard for headroom, and hardly any standard for how power is measured, FTC notwithstanding. Many companies measure power where distortion reaches 1%, which is usually well past the knee in the distortion-power curve. If we use the power at the knee--where the distortion is at its rated amount--the headroom might be the difference between that and where the distortion climbs to 1%. I was looking at the specs for the Hypex NC502MP, for example, and concluded that its rated power into 8 ohms should be 220 wpc--the power where it achieves its rated 0.002% distortion+noise. But it's pushing 350 wpc before it reaches 1% distortion. And that's the power required to fill out the waveform at the requested RMS voltage for a single waveform, not for some period of time (when thermal limitations may be reached). Summary: Both Adcom and B&K rated their amps conservatively, so the GFA-535, at 60 wpc rated, will play noticeably louder than an amp rated at 30 wpc (like the Arcam), and (somewhat less) noticeably louder than other amps rated at 60 wpc. And B&K's smallest stereo amp from later in that period was conservatively rated at four times the power of that Arcam--so it's doubled twice.

But you are right that he was asking about integrated amps.

Rick "recalling that the 90's was the era of separates" Denney

 

[twiiii]

If you want something more sophisticated than an Adcom or Hafler but built in protection features very very few others have you want a Mcintosh 7200 or 7300.