• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

A/B comparisons between streaming sources and the CD?

S

Sandman1221

Super Member
I started to do A/B testing between songs using streaming sources and the CD. Started with the free Pandora app on an OPPO 103 and compared to the CD. When you pause a song and leave the Pandora app on the OPPO you cannot restart the song, it goes to a diffferent song when you go back, so that was an issue. However, it was easy to hear the difference. CD had more sound/detail compared to Pandora, but Pandora still sounded good! Then tried Apple Music with the free 30 day trial subscription, then I could pause a song on the iPad, and switch to OPPO and play the same song from the same album. Matched the volume levels for both sources. As far as I could tell using the Best of Sade album, the two sources sounded identical. I listened for signature background sounds on CD and then switched to iPad Apple music and heard the same sounds, and vice versa.

Of course, the OPPO used its internal DAC, and the iPad its internal DAC. So it was interesting that the DAC did not seem to be a factor.

Has anyone else done A/B testing of streaming sources to CDs? If you did, what did you find for a given streaming source? Were any high resolution streaming sources noticeably better than the CD, and if they were better what sounded different, I mean did you hear sounds that were not on the CD or did it just sound fuller? And what equipment did you use to stream versus to play CD?

My connections:
CD player: Fiber optic to router/ ethernet cable to OPPO/ RCA cable to amp.
iPad: Fiber optic to router/ WiFi 6 to iPad/RCA cable to amp.
 
Last edited:
Register to hide this ad
Then I realized I have Apple lossless CD files on a 1st generation iPhone, will have to find the original CDs and then compare the iPhone connected to amp via cable, to the OPPO CD player. Not sure what DAC the original iPhone has, but guessing it is just a 16 bit.

Original iPhone connection: iPhone with lossless CD files to amp via RCA cable.
 
Last edited:
You should be using an Oppo the ends in "5" (i.e., 95, 105, 115) which sound better than those that end in "3" unless you are using an external DAC.
 
Sandman1221 said:
Has anyone else done A/B testing of streaming sources to CDs?
Click to expand...
I did quite a few years ago after moving into our 398sqft Tiny House. I needed to decide it Vinyls or Cds were staying as my physical media source for storage space reaaons. I had already been streaming with Spotify for while.

I have a bias towards vinyls, I have dumped my CD collection twice before in the past.

In my A/B'ing with Spotify or any other free service CD had the noticeable edge. When I tried Tidal, AMHD and Qobuz that edge shifted to streaming being just as good and often better than CD.

This is where I have been for approx 6 yrs.
 
So I got my old Gen 1 iPhone with Apple lossless files ripped from CDs I have, and then I found the original CDs. Connected iPhone to amp with Monoprice 3.5 mm to dual RCA cable, and OPPO 103 to amp with WBC Mogami/Eminence locking RCA cable.

First I got the sound level for both sources the same ( OPPO has adjustable volume, iPhone was on max), then I listened to 30 seconds on one source, then I played the same 30 seconds on other source. Next I started both sources on a song at the same time, and then just switched back and forth between the two sources using remote control for the amp, I think that was the best way actually.

And the result is well they sounded identical! And that makes sense, since both are the same recording. I used Shawn Mullins Souls Core CD, and picked tracks that were mostly him signing and a guitar playing, so very easy to listen for differences. When the same song was started on both sources at the same time, and I just switched inputs on amp using remote, I got lost, meaning I could not tell the difference between sources.

However, when I played 30 seconds on one source, then the same 30 seconds on the other source, at first I thought there was a difference with OPPO better. But it was my expectations influencing my hearing, because I was very aware of which source was playing. With both sources playing at the same time, and me just switching back and forth between sources with the remote for amp, iI was not so aware of which source I was listening to and that is when I realized the sound was identical.

Apple was always known for excellent music reproduction, that is why I got the iPhone, figured it would be a good music player (iPod) when I got a new phone.

So to everyone touting high end DACs, well if you like them fine, but Apple's I assume 16 bit DAC from 2005 is just as good as the OPPO 103 24 bit DAC, which makes sense because the CD is a 16 bit recording, just like nearly all CDs today. Obviously, higher bit rate music sources will/should sound better if done properly, but CD quality is plenty good enough for me. Though Apple has a hires audio service, maybe I will try that, but may be hard to A/B with a CD if they are not from the same master recording session.
 
Last edited:
Dswankey said:
I'm assuming you ripped them though before dumping? if so into what format?
Click to expand...
Nope, I rarely listened to them, so I gave them to family and friends both times. I preferred my vinyls, still do.

That said, I now stream about 80% of the tile if not more. Friday thru Sunday is when my vinyls typically get to spinning, the tube's also get rolled into the system for the weekend, turned on Friday afternoon and shut off Sunday night.
 
My system when playing a record sounds just like a live concert by the same group, and the key factor in that is the speakers, EPI A500s with the last upgraded tweeter. Now since then I have replaced the amplifier several times, and while some amplifiers sounded better than others at lower volume levels, they were all very similar at moderate to higher volume levels.

Gotta love the ignore option!
 
So what I learned is while blind A/ B testing is likely the best it requires a second person. The next best A/B test is where I only have to press a button on a remote to switch sources, without having to look to identify the source on the amp. Then my expectations and their biases are eliminated. In this test I had to press the remote button 2x up/down to switch between sources, but in the future will make it so I only have to press 1x up/down, because the less I have to think about what source I am selecting the bettter.

That, and for a song I know well, having both sources playing in sync, so when I switch sources I hear the next note in the song, instead of replaying the previous notes. For some reason that made it very easy to tell the sound quality was identical.
 
Last edited:
GChief said:
Thats actually easy to control if you are aware of it. Training and just plain old expreince help also.
Click to expand...
Well I thought so, but it was not the case for me if I had to pay attention to what source I was selecting. But not something I do on a regular basis. Just still surprised how my hearing can change the sound of a recording, when there is no change!
 
Sandman1221 said:
Well I thought so, but it was not the case for me if I had to pay attention to what source I was selecting. But not something I do on a regular basis. Just still surprised how my hearing can change the sound of a recording, when there is no change!
Click to expand...
Oh, I am not saying bias isn't a thing, its is and its a huge thing. But it can be controlled. I had to do it professionally, with a lot of formal training, as part of my job.
 
GChief said:
Oh, I am not saying bias isn't a thing, its is and its a huge thing. But it can be controlled. I had to do it professionally, with a lot of formal training, as part of my job.
Click to expand...
Okay that helps me understand your perspective, thanks.

So I added the below to my above comment, for other viewers, but wanted your take on it, if you do not mind, thanks again.

"That, and for a song I know well, having both sources playing in sync, so when I switch sources I hear the next note in the song, instead of replaying the previous notes. For some reason that made it very easy to tell the sound quality was identical."
 
Sandman1221 said:
I started to do A/B testing between songs using streaming sources and the CD. Started with the free Pandora app on an OPPO 103 and compared to the CD. When you pause a song and leave the Pandora app on the OPPO you cannot restart the song, it goes to a diffferent song when you go back, so that was an issue. However, it was easy to hear the difference. CD had more sound/detail compared to Pandora, but Pandora still sounded good! Then tried Apple Music with the free 30 day trial subscription, then I could pause a song on the iPad, and switch to OPPO and play the same song from the same album. Matched the volume levels for both sources. As far as I could tell using the Best of Sade album, the two sources sounded identical. I listened for signature background sounds on CD and then switched to iPad Apple music and heard the same sounds, and vice versa.

Of course, the OPPO used its internal DAC, and the iPad its internal DAC. So it was interesting that the DAC did not seem to be a factor.

Has anyone else done A/B testing of streaming sources to CDs? If you did, what did you find for a given streaming source? Were any high resolution streaming sources noticeably better than the CD, and if they were better what sounded different, I mean did you hear sounds that were not on the CD or did it just sound fuller? And what equipment did you use to stream versus to play CD?

My connections:
CD player: Fiber optic to router/ ethernet cable to OPPO/ RCA cable to amp.
iPad: Fiber optic to router/ WiFi 6 to iPad/RCA cable to amp.




It’s like a balance between the familiar and the new, when you need to decide what to trust. I had a similar dilemma in another hobby — analyzing sports outcomes. In the end, I tried bet9ja prediction on expertpredictionstoday.com , and felt the same difference: different formats give different emotions, but it is their combination that makes the experience more complete. Excitement and analytics complement each other, like streaming and classical sound.
Click to expand...
I also tried comparing CD and streaming (in my case Tidal and Qobuz) on the same album. At the same volume level, it seemed to me that CD gives a slightly more "bodily" sound, especially on quiet nuances and vocals. But at the same time, hi-res streaming on Tidal was almost as good, the difference is minimal and noticeable only with very careful listening. I think a lot depends not only on the source, but also on what DAC and amplifier are used in the chain.
 
Sandman1221 said:
Okay that helps me understand your perspective, thanks.

So I added the below to my above comment, for other viewers, but wanted your take on it, if you do not mind, thanks again.

"That, and for a song I know well, having both sources playing in sync, so when I switch sources I hear the next note in the song, instead of replaying the previous notes. For some reason that made it very easy to tell the sound quality was identical."
Click to expand...
I do A/B just like I did my acoustic analysis in our lab when it was putting food on my families table, its often listening to the same few seconds multiple times then moving on to the next section, there are even notebooks involved lol. :crazy:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom