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A few speaker questions...

RunOutGroove

RunOutGroove

Addicted Member
I recently bought a couple of Elac Debut 2.0 b6.2 speakers to replace a really old pair of Mirage speakers (bought in the 80s) that I had replaced both the woofers and tweeters in over the years (and were probably poorly matched/poorly set up). These speakers, paired with my old Marantz 2270 receiver and a small Energy subwoofer really sound fantastic. I'm hearing my music collection in a whole new light, with much more detail, deeper imaging and greater dynamics that I've ever experienced. Especially since I got these for really cheap ($150) from a Craigslist ad, I'm blown away by just how much this inexpensive upgrade has improved my whole hi-fi experience. I used to joke that my gear was really "mid-fi" but now I feel like it is truly hi-fi...

Anyway, I moved my old jury rigged Mirage speakers (larger 2 way bookshelf style) into the extension speaker spot in my home office and moved out some even older, less good sounding KLH speakers (from a compact stereo that my parents bought in the late 60s). I'm spoiled though by the Elacs and I'm thinking that I'd like to upgrade these extra speakers as well... I want good sound all over my house!

I don't have much money to throw at this for now and I'm hoping for another inexpensive, but great sounding speaker score. Looking on my local Craigslist for deals I see a pair of KEF Q15 speakers and I wonder if these are considered to be any good, how they compare with my Elacs and if they're a good buy at $95? If not these speakers, what other speakers that might be common enough to find on Craigslist (I live in a city, Portland, OR so there's a lot of listings) in the inexpensive price range. I'm looking for bookshelf speakers and ones like the Elacs that have a really transparent, dynamic sound. I listen to all kinds of music on them, but if I have to go one way or another I'd rather have something that sounds great for acoustic instruments (string bass, percussion, etc) rather than something that sounds more "thick" for rock music... though I feel like the Elacs do both pretty well.

Also, since I'm running two sets of speakers off of my Marantz 2270, I wonder about efficiency and Ohm ratings. The Elacs are 6 rather than 8 Ohms and I wonder if I'm going to be in dager of overdriving my amp if I were to get another set that's 6 or even 4 ohms... Do I need to be looking at 8 ohm speakers only?
 
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Aaron Hayman said:
Anyway, I moved my old jury rigged Mirage speakers (larger 2 way bookshelf style) into the extension speaker spot in my home office and moved out some even older, less good sounding KLH speakers (from a compact stereo that my parents bought in the late 60s). I'm spoiled though by the Elacs and I'm thinking that I'd like to upgrade these extra speakers as well... I want good sound all over my house!

Also, since I'm running two sets of speakers off of my Marantz 2270, I wonder about efficiency and Ohm ratings. The Elacs are 6 rather than 8 Ohms and I wonder if I'm going to be in dager of overdriving my amp if I were to get another set that's 6 or even 4 ohms... Do I need to be looking at 8 ohm speakers only?
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I would look at the model number on those KLH speakers. If they are KLH Model Twenty or Twenty Plus speakers, they would be very good sounding speakers with some maintenance (recap and recoating the woofer surround). It is likely that they don't sound good because they need some work. They may be a smaller version of the KLH 20s, in which case they would also be good speakers. If you have the amplifier and record player with the two speakers, you have a valuable system. A complete KLH Model Twenty system is selling for over $600 near me. KLH from the 60s are old, but they can sound very good and are probably worth more than you think.

If you plan on running two pairs of speakers at the same time, they should be rated 8 ohms each. If you plan on running one pair at a time, you can get by with 4 ohm speakers or greater. See this thread: https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/marantz-2270-and-4-ohm-speakers.585222/
 
RTally said:
I would look at the model number on those KLH speakers. If they are KLH Model Twenty or Twenty Plus speakers, they would be very good sounding speakers with some maintenance (recap and recoating the woofer surround). It is likely that they don't sound good because they need some work. They may be a smaller version of the KLH 20s, in which case they would also be good speakers. If you have the amplifier and record player with the two speakers, you have a valuable system. A complete KLH Model Twenty system is selling for over $600 near me. KLH from the 60s are old, but they can sound very good and are probably worth more than you think.

If you plan on running two pairs of speakers at the same time, they should be rated 8 ohms each. If you plan on running one pair at a time, you can get by with 4 ohm speakers or greater. See this thread: https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/marantz-2270-and-4-ohm-speakers.585222/
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Thanks for your advice... I looked at my KLHs and they say "model seventeen." Not that I doubt you about vintage KLH speakers, but I have to wonder if these ones are on the list of ones that are considered desirable. They're from a KLH compact system, which seemed to be very popular when I was a kid. My family had one as did several other families of kinds that I knew. They didn't seem to be in the homes of folks who were really serious about music, but maybe ones who read consumer reports and bought what was supposed to be a decent budget stereo. I remember that the turntable that was built into the thing was a pretty cheap looking Gerrard changer, but the unit had a very nice hardwood looking case and the speakers matched that. The cabinets and even the grills are really pretty classy looking. If I thought that I could restore these and have really great sounding speakers, I might be inclined to do so provided that the cost wouldn't be too much. I understand that upgrading the drivers to something more modern, maybe ones that are made of composite type materials (like the Elacs, which sound so good tome me!) probably isn't going to work because the cabinets were designed specifically for the drivers that they house. Other drivers, though they might fit would result in an unbalanced sound, no? ... or is there likely to be some kind of "recipe" that someone has pre-tested that uses certain modern drivers in these cabinets to good effect. Is that kind of swap anything that's typically done?

As for the speaker ohms question... I read that thread and it seemed to be only addressing the use of 4 ohm speakers with the Marantz and didn't say anything about 6 ohm models. Is running 6 and 8 ohm speakers together really a recipe for frying my amp? Maybe it's a borderline situation and then I'm curious to know what to look for to know if I might be doing damage? Would I see any advance signs of that?
 
Aaron Hayman said:
"model seventeen." ...I have to wonder if these ones are on the list of ones that are considered desirable.
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Why wonder when it’s so easy to search for the many resources on how to restore these? Anyway, wonder no more, many people consider these to be an excellent speaker when operating properly and yes they look nice too.
 
Aaron Hayman said:
Thanks for your advice... I looked at my KLHs and they say "model seventeen." Not that I doubt you about vintage KLH speakers, but I have to wonder if these ones are on the list of ones that are considered desirable. They're from a KLH compact system, which seemed to be very popular when I was a kid. My family had one as did several other families of kinds that I knew. They didn't seem to be in the homes of folks who were really serious about music, but maybe ones who read consumer reports and bought what was supposed to be a decent budget stereo. I remember that the turntable that was built into the thing was a pretty cheap looking Gerrard changer, but the unit had a very nice hardwood looking case and the speakers matched that. The cabinets and even the grills are really pretty classy looking. If I thought that I could restore these and have really great sounding speakers, I might be inclined to do so provided that the cost wouldn't be too much. I understand that upgrading the drivers to something more modern, maybe ones that are made of composite type materials (like the Elacs, which sound so good tome me!) probably isn't going to work because the cabinets were designed specifically for the drivers that they house. Other drivers, though they might fit would result in an unbalanced sound, no? ... or is there likely to be some kind of "recipe" that someone has pre-tested that uses certain modern drivers in these cabinets to good effect. Is that kind of swap anything that's typically done?

As for the speaker ohms question... I read that thread and it seemed to be only addressing the use of 4 ohm speakers with the Marantz and didn't say anything about 6 ohm models. Is running 6 and 8 ohm speakers together really a recipe for frying my amp? Maybe it's a borderline situation and then I'm curious to know what to look for to know if I might be doing damage? Would I see any advance signs of that?
Click to expand...

First, restoring a speaker never entails replacing a driver with anything other than the original. Unless you are a speaker designer or you enjoying DIY speaker building, don't even think you can get as good a sound as the original when replacing drivers with something other than the original.

The KLH Model Seventeen is more valuable than the Model Twenty. A quick search on AK will give you many threads on restoring Model 17 speakers. It is not the top of the line KLH of the time, but it is a very good speaker.

The rules for speaker ohms are simple. Running two 8 ohm speakers at the same time is the same as running one 4 ohm speaker. 6 ohms is between 4 and 8. You can run one 6 ohm speaker because it is more than 4 ohms, but running two 6 ohm speakers is the same as a 3 ohm speaker. So, if you have two 8 ohm speakers, you can run them both at the same time. If you have anything other than two 8 ohm speakers, you should run them one at a time.
 
OK... I did some research on the KLH speaker that I have where I did see some articles for restoring it and once that's done it's supposed to sound pretty good. Hard to believe really, because it was part of a compact stereo that I never thought of as anything like audiophile gear, but nonetheless I have to say that it is nicely made (the cabinet looks really quality) so maybe that gives some indication of how well it's built. I'm not much of an electronics tinkerer but I can follow directions so maybe at some point, I'll order those parts and go about modding out these things. It doesn't seem like I'd have much to loose as the parts are cheap.

I have to wonder even if these speakers are fixed up really nicely and operating as they should be if I'd like the character of the sound. I wonder if they'd approach the clarity of the Elacs that I have or if they might be smooth sounding but a bit duller in character?
 
Aaron Hayman said:
OK... I did some research on the KLH speaker that I have where I did see some articles for restoring it and once that's done it's supposed to sound pretty good. Hard to believe really, because it was part of a compact stereo that I never thought of as anything like audiophile gear, but nonetheless I have to say that it is nicely made (the cabinet looks really quality) so maybe that gives some indication of how well it's built. I'm not much of an electronics tinkerer but I can follow directions so maybe at some point, I'll order those parts and go about modding out these things. It doesn't seem like I'd have much to loose as the parts are cheap.

I have to wonder even if these speakers are fixed up really nicely and operating as they should be if I'd like the character of the sound. I wonder if they'd approach the clarity of the Elacs that I have or if they might be smooth sounding but a bit duller in character?
Click to expand...

Welcome to the journey. The best way to answer your questions is to fix them up and listen to them. Many like the KLH sound. I find my KLH Six speakers to very good. I also have KLH Twenty that I like, but they are a step down from the Six.
 
RTally said:
Welcome to the journey. The best way to answer your questions is to fix them up and listen to them. Many like the KLH sound. I find my KLH Six speakers to very good. I also have KLH Twenty that I like, but they are a step down from the Six.
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How would you describe the sound? What do kind of music you listen to on them and what genres/vibes do you feel that they really do justice to?
 
Aaron Hayman said:
How would you describe the sound? What do kind of music you listen to on them and what genres/vibes do you feel that they really do justice to?
Click to expand...

I listen to almost every type of music out there. Most of my listening is rock, jazz, some classical. I do not do "critical listening." Since I work almost all my waking hours, my primary listening space is my office. I also do not listen at concert sound levels. Most of my listening is around 80 dB SPL or less.

When I first played my KLH Six, I was astounded at how good they sounded (they were freshly recapped and redoped). My KLH Twenty speakers are very similar, but with slightly less bass. They are two-way speakers. I like my Polk Monitor 7B speakers better, but they are 3 way speakers.
 
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