A really good article about vinyl, digital files and cd's

[StimpyWan]

Not quite. There is lossless compression and lossy compression. Lossless compression, used by audio file formats like FLAC and general-purpose compression like ZIP, uses various techniques to reduce the size of the file whilst not losing any data. For example, a lot of audio data contains repeated information.

KKKKKIIIIINNNNNDDDDDD OOOOFFFF LLLLLIIIIKKKKEEEE TTTTHHHHHHHIIIIISSSS​

You can represent the above by indicating the character followed by a count, like this:

K5I5N5D6 O4F4 L5I4K4E4 T4H7I5S4​

That takes less space, but represents exactly the same information. You can reliably always get back the original data, so it's losslessly compressed.

On the other hand, lossy compression actually removes data -- like the MP3 audio format -- whilst (hopefully) not being (too) noticeable. For example, my example could be lossy compressed to be:

KND OF LKE THS​

It's still essentially readable, but some data has been irretrievably lost. It is lossy compression.

Unfortunately, unlike Rom data, that's repeated in adjacent sectors, audio data, at least for the CD format, has no data redundancy. The data is encoded once, in a single data stream, with no repetition. It's only the circuitry in the CD player itself, that allows it to quickly re-scan hard to read areas, and interpolate what the correct bit 'might' be, that prevents playback faults. Usually the interpolation is done correctly, and we never hear an audible fault from corrupt data. I've scanned too many test press samples, and seen too many E22, E32, and Uncorrectable Errors, that should cause audio issues, and don't, due to the player's successful interpolation.

 

[DaveVoorhis]

Unfortunately, unlike Rom data, that's repeated in adjacent sectors, audio data, at least for the CD format, has no data redundancy. The data is encoded once, in a single data stream, with no repetition. It's only the circuitry in the CD player itself, that allows it to quickly re-scan hard to read areas, and interpolate what the correct bit 'might' be, that prevents playback faults. Usually the interpolation is done correctly, and we never hear an audible fault from corrupt data. I've scanned too many test press samples, and seen too many E22, E32, and Uncorrectable Errors, that should cause audio issues, and don't, due to the player's successful interpolation.

True, though nothing to do with my post about lossy vs lossless compression techniques, in which I featured a simple illustration of run-length encoding. It wasn't meant to illustrate data redundancy, though I realise (now) that it might (unintentionally) be interpreted that way.

 

[StimpyWan]

The cutting lathe is incapable of reacting to the digital signal as abruptly as the laser can follow the pips, the same for the tape decks magnetic head, hence a more musical flow to the recording.

Are you referring to a CD cutting lathe? A CD cutting lathe is more than capable to reacting to digital signals, as a CD lathe is optical in nature. It's a laser beam driven lathe.

 

[StimpyWan]

True, though nothing to do with my post about lossy vs lossless compression techniques, in which I featured a simple illustration of run-length encoding. It wasn't meant to illustrate data redundancy, though I realise (now) that it might (unintentionally) be interpreted that way.

Data encoding and data compression, whether lossy or lossless, are two totally different technologies. So, if you were referring to data compression, in your earlier statement, then my apologies, as lossy data compression does use an encode/decode method, where the original data is retained.

 

[DaveVoorhis]

Data encoding and data compression, whether lossy or lossless, are two totally different technologies. So, if you were referring to data compression, in your earlier statement, then my apologies, as lossy data compression does use an encode/decode method, where the original data is retained.

Yes, I was referring to data compression. Per my post, "There is lossless compression and lossy compression. Lossless compression, used by audio file formats like FLAC and general-purpose compression like ZIP, uses various techniques to reduce the size of the file whilst not losing any data. For example, a lot of audio data contains repeated information. ..."

 

[StimpyWan]

Yes, I was referring to data compression. Per my post, "There is lossless compression and lossy compression. Lossless compression, used by audio file formats like FLAC and general-purpose compression like ZIP, uses various techniques to reduce the size of the file whilst not losing any data. For example, a lot of audio data contains repeated information. ..."

Sorry. Too many years working in the CD industry. As such, I was never a fan of MP3 or lossy compression. Don't need it, don't want it.

 

[JP]

Unfortunately, unlike Rom data, that's repeated in adjacent sectors, audio data, at least for the CD format, has no data redundancy. The data is encoded once, in a single data stream, with no repetition. It's only the circuitry in the CD player itself, that allows it to quickly re-scan hard to read areas, and interpolate what the correct bit 'might' be, that prevents playback faults. Usually the interpolation is done correctly, and we never hear an audible fault from corrupt data. I've scanned too many test press samples, and seen too many E22, E32, and Uncorrectable Errors, that should cause audio issues, and don't, due to the player's successful interpolation.

IIRC, Redbook audio is CIRC encoded. While this isn't technical redundancy, there are some 64 bits of error correction data per 192 bits of audio data, and the frames are interleaved. The player is indeed able to correct errors without interpolation.

 

[StimpyWan]

Yes, but it's almost impossible to master a vinyl with brickwall mastering like so many CDs are nowadays. There might've been a short period from the late 80s to early 90s where CDs weren't brickwall mastered. But after that, most CDs are brickwall mastered, unless all you listen to is classical, jazz, and movie soundtracks.

That sounds about right. Most the master tapes we received, through that time period, were before the Loudness Wars hit. So, it was really strange to see truncated wave-forms, on our Sonic Solutions system, when super-compression became the norm.

Plus, slightly on topic, masters tapes (whether digital or analog) were often mastered differently, with different compression and EQ, depending if it was a LP master, a cassette master, or a CD master. I can't count he number of times, we received a new master, and then have a client frantically call and tell us they had sent a cassette master, instead of the CD master. Wanting to know if we'd pressed any discs yet, that they needed to send the other master.

 

[SuperLead100]

I think part of what makes vinyl a more enjoyable medium for many is the ambiance. The background noise. If you've ever been to a concert, you KNOW that it's not quiet, even when it's quiet. All those people, all that breathing, the humming, singing along, whatever. There is no silence in live music. And even a good record is still not totally silent. Unlike CD, where the music seems to come from nowhere and nothing, with a record, it's more like being there. Even if there never really was a "there."

It's funny because the thing that made me an early adopter of cd's was that they were quiet. I hated the inconsistencies of vinyl and trying to keep them clean. At that time it was a breath of fresh air for me. I think Alan Parsons "Pyramid" was my first cd.